Study at Reykjavik University



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Our international students describe their RU experiences.

Reykjavik University, 2017

Reykjavik University is very closely
connected to the industry of Iceland. This gives our students a unique opportunity in
a very close-knit, advanced, developed industrial society to have access to industry, specialists and
opportunities that very few universities can offer. I really like the place. Everybody is very nice
and is always willing to help you. I selected Iceland mainly because
of Iceland itself, because of the nature. But on the other hand the
school is also very good. It’s a very high
energy environment. We have geothermal and
we also have a lot of water because it rains a lot,
hence hydropower. And there is
also a lot of wind. It’s an opportunity for me to learn a number of
innovative renewable energy technologies and be able to utilize
them when I go back home. In corporate finance we are few people,
small classes and a lot of discussions. A lot of interaction between students and teachers.
So it has a personal feel to it. Here in the computer science department
there is a very advanced course Here in the computer science department
there is a very advanced course for game design and virtual environments.
So that’s the main reason that brought us here. Classes are a lot smaller here and
you have a lot more regular assignments like group work
and presentations. I feel that there is a much more direct
relationship between teacher and student. With much more dialog which
can really help improve your studying. We really sit down with our students
and we tailor the program to each student. Our primary purpose is to educate the
specialists and the leaders of the future. I’m working in the subfield of mathematics
called combinatorics and I work with quite simple
mathematical objects. We’re teaching the computer how to prove
things about these mathematical objects. This is very new. You have study spaces
you have lecture halls and you also have a very nice
library where I study a lot. I think it’s really advanced, a lot of
access to innovative and modern stuff that really makes learning
and studying easier. It’s been really nice. We have met
a lot of different people and we are always doing
something. We have full schedules. We live in the capital and
there is always something to do a lot of cultural events, dancing and places
to meet people and just hang out. At one point it was
a hard decision for me. But when I came here then I knew it was the
right decision. So I’m very happy here. Something that I really liked
was that it was Iceland. So it was perfect, I could study and come
to an amazing place at the same time.

The War in Yemen | Lecture by anthropologist Moosa Elayah and political scientist Jutta Joachim



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The War in Yemen | Lecture by anthropologist Moosa Elayah and political scientist Jutta Joachim
Tuesday 21 May 2019 | 20.00 – 21.30 hrs | LUX, Nijmegen

For more than four years, there has been a devastating civil war in Yemen. News from this war comes to our TV screens only piecemeal. What exactly is happening in Yemen? What other countries are involved and why? Come listen to anthropologist Moosa Elayah and political scientist Jutta Joachim, who together will explain the context of the conflict in Yemen, the strategic interests involved, and the reasons why international outreach has been delayed for so long.

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Radboud Reflects Organizes in-depth lectures about philosophy, religion, ethics, society and culture. www.ru.nl/radboudreflects
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Depression in Different Cultures | Lectures by Jan Derksen, Pius Mosima and Angela Roothaan



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Depression in Different Cultures | Lectures by psychologist Jan Derksen and philosophers Pius Mosima and Angela Roothaan | Tuesday 10 April 2019 | 20.00 – 22.00 hrs | LUX, Nijmegen

“The common cold of mental illnesses” it’s called, but also “disease number one.” Depression. Almost 20% of all Dutch people deal with it at some point in their lives. Why do people in the Netherlands and other Western countries suffer so much from feelings of gloom and dispiritedness? To what degree is depression a product of an individualized and medicalized culture? And how do people deal with depression differently on the African continent? Think further about this with psychologist Jan Derksen and philosophers Pius Mosima and Angela Roothaan.

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Radboud Reflects Organizes in-depth lectures about philosophy, religion, ethics, society and culture. www.ru.nl/radboudreflects
Wil je op de hoogte blijven van onze activiteiten? Schrijf je dan in voor de tweewekelijkse nieuwsbrief.
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good evening welcome everybody it's it's a it's a it's a full house thank you all for coming at this joint event of love that reflects and philosophy Ozzfest philosophy East West and we were very happy to have you all here and maybe it's not it's not a not a big surprise as it's it's said to be the case that in almost 20% of all Dutch get do you do you have to deal with depression at one point in their lives so it's it's a personal thing maybe for 20 percent of the people here maybe even more okay but what are we then suffering from are we dealing with a depression epidemic as philosopher Tweety do who once called it and and what kind of epidemic would that be where does it come from is it society that makes us ill could we imagine a different society in which we would not become ill of depression is there too much pressure to achieve individual success or are we less equipped to deal with setbacks and with negative emotions all questions will attend to at one point during this evening and originally our intention was to offer a very broad perspective on the depression in different cultures which was still the title and include Eastern the Eastern cultures South American cultures but then we had the possibility to have pious massima here an african philosopher from cameroon so we decided no we why we want to give it a bit more of a focus so that's how we have two perspectives here today are very familiar european perspective and then of course which is very broad as well an African perspective and what is that did I hear something someone say that will we'll get to that because as pious Muslim I said in an interview today we don't have a word for depression in any African language so what does that mean what does it tell us so aside from him we have two other speakers here tonight I'll introduce the three of them they will give each 20 minutes lecture and afterwards have a discussion chaired by me my name is Lisa Doolin's I work as a program manager at the health both reflects and and then afterwards there's of course after the discussion there's time for a question from you but first so the speakers will start with the lecture by young Derrick sir he is a clinical psychologist affiliated with the rapid university and a free University in Brussels and among other things he has written free psychology out of the grasp of the brain myth in Dutch besides Peru he advocated from the Harrison metre traders in 12 2012 and also another book mental illness for everyone in Raynham season dueling more recent 2015 and tonight he will guide us through thoughts on depression because what are we talking about really and what is depression has it changed in the past years and then we'll go to Angela about hands she's a philosopher and works at the Free University in Amsterdam she's written on Spinoza the experience of nature spirituality in ghosts in modern culture and more recently her research focuses on African philosophy and shamanistic ontology and she will guide us into the the African philosophy somewhat she'll she'll bridge the gap between Europe and Africa and then we have pious massima who is a philosopher of course and affiliated with the university of amenda in cameroon and he specializes in african and intercultural philosophy he will then guide us into African philosophy intercultural philosophy specifically and and of course an African take on depression so that's the program for tonight I hope you will enjoy it also and not get too depressed and first warm welcome to young derrickson Issa I was a little worried when I understood that it was sold out and and that worrying doesn't stop now I see that there are many young people here so I hope you all are interested in mood disorders depressions and culture and I hope you are not suffering from mood disorders and suffering from a culture everybody is quiet so hopefully it will be a joyful evening and I learned to know peace earlier and I try to assess him a little bit there's nothing of a depression in that guy he's really he told me I'm always enjoying life I'm always walking around full of energy so I thought maybe he's a little manic but also no so and what happens with people who have a mood disorder or a major center depressive disorder they suffer from life they do not enjoy life enjoyment is in contradiction to a summer depressed mood and in a severe in a severe depression gravity is pulling the body down a depression is movement when you look at the clinical eye then you can notice immediately the way in which somebody is walking and making his or her gestures and talking and it's their energy it's their spirit is there is it lively when a mood disorder is present during a longer period it pulls everything down to the earth gravity is more able to pull the body down then then there is no mood disorder you also see that in those nice drawings but of course a mood disorder can vary a lot then we started our clinical practice in 1979 on the countryside between anime animation practically nobody had psychological or psychiatric help there of about 68,000 people in villages and then we were sent by the physicians to the houses of people who had a according to the physician a request for help and we found people lying in bed and being in the end stage of a mood as well and that end stage means that in psychologically psychologically you are practically death you are not living anymore in psychological way your body is still there and you maintain your body but your mind gave up and in a in a severe mood disorder all aspects of life are in disarray you have problems with your energy you feel very tired and fatigued you have problems with eating you appetite got loss you have problems in continuing on your work or study there's no energy to continue working studying and there's no enjoyment of that anymore your interest in sexual activity your libido got lost so life is not really more vividly inside of you and in a in a crucial some a psychological sense your self-esteem your identity you are the view of yourself as a person your self-image it's very negative it's inferior when you ask these patients do you feel equally to other people do you feel better than other people or do you feel inferior they will tell you quite fast I feel inferior I have severe self blame I have a lot of self-criticism and I'm suffering under that criticism patients are unable to be very active but they are also unable to have a normal sleep so part of them are unable to start sleeping they are have problems falling asleep and all those tend to fall asleep but then they wake up at around 3 o'clock and then they have to go to the toilet that's normal and then it's impossible for them to sleep again and they start brooding they are ruling and thinking and having obsessed thoughts so a real clinical depression is a it's a severe severe this world and that clinical depression is not so frequent we talk about mood disorders as the common cold so that's the next two anxiety disorders mood disorders are appear most frequent in people lives but we just had the research in the youngsters between until 25 years and then you saw of course the ADHD and autism nowadays and addictions but there was one crucial sentence anxiety and mood disorders are most frequent and that's always like this so also in you young people most if you have a psychological disorder most of the time it has to do with anxiety over the mood disorder and normally a combination of the both but that mood disorder is not always a real clinical some in depression happily and when you want to experience depression a little bit I'm sure you can do that quite easily make yourself very tired I stay up and don't don't go to bed but try to stay active and then observe yourself observe that's happening and then you feel some of the symptoms in a light way of patients with mood disorder experience that practically every day and then it's very difficult to experience immediately your low self-esteem and your inferiority feelings because normally you will not stir them up so easily but but the physical feeling of being tired and feeling down and feeling blue and lack energy is easy it's easy to experience in a certain condition nowadays what we see in clinical practice is that a lot of our patients present symptoms of a mood disorder without having the full condition but they have several symptoms and they suffer from that every 10 years in the Netherlands there is epidemiological research and then in the Netherlands they check what kinds of psychological and psychiatric disorders are prevalent and those disorders amongst all the things anxiety disorders mood disorders personality disorders addictions ADHD autism etc they practically stayed the same during the years so they do not increase impressively and you do not decrease although they are treated a lot I always think why don't they disappear we are treating them I myself I'm treating them already for more than 40 years and they don't disappear I mean we had to infectious some of the CSIs and they disappear after treatment so I'm always astonished again that they stay coming that the mood disorders are still there but the percentage is low and the amount of people that ask help that request for help increases and increases in our own research last 20 years three times as many people in the Netherlands asked for psychological and psychiatric health while the disorders are the same as 20 years ago or 40 years ago so that's interesting it has something to do with our culture and people in our culture tend to psychologize to make their request for help in a psychological way and they percent some of those symptoms you can somewhat differentiate between about eight severe symptoms and then well they present three two or three and you say well I feel blue do you feel that the whole week no no no no no to two days a week and then it's gone again can you still enjoy your life no not so not not so well anymore as I used to but still then I go to my sport of activity or when I go running it's okay and you are still running yesterday running when you are really depressed running is a nice therapy but it's also very difficult said someone to start that and so the the symptom load is less and the request for help is earlier there and why is there a big summer request for help because also the summer professionals are there we have an enormous increase in psychologists also in psychiatrists a little less pers we have an enormous increasing coaches and in all other people who give their help in the social field and the social workers and and the therapists with a higher education system without being a psychotherapist but there are a lot of professionals around who offer the help and then people also tend to formulate their problems in the way that it's connected to what the professional office so people if you offer a special treatment for depression you get all kinds of people if you look at them critically they do not have a depression that they they formulate they are requests for help in that way because they expect something a mood disorder in a classical way is also the product of three sources it's a spell it's special in that sense that more than all the other psychological disorders it is produced in principle by three type of determinants biological physiological psychological and cultural you can have him mood disorder produce by cultural social cultural issues if you get fired in your enterprise if you are if you lose your job that can for some people that can be array reason for a minor minor depression and then the treatment is not talk with a psychotherapist or swallow medication but is go to the trade unions or take a nice good lawyer and and take care of yourself you have depressions in which biology and physiology is primary you have those depressions they are also specific they are recurrent they come back each time they have no visible timeless so there is not something happens and you reactivate the passion no the depression more or less comes from the inside and you don't know why you get depressed there's nothing happens there was no special occasion but still there is that depression then you see the depression in the family you see the depression yet the father or mother or brother or sister or uncle so so you see that there's a contribution from the family background and especially in a mood disorder that's produced by mainly physiological biological some determinants is that you lose the capacity to enjoy you lose your deep-seated wishes and you're unable to enjoy life if you if I have a grandfather in my consulting-room who has a depression my first question is can you still enjoy your grandchildren when he tells me no I'm I'm getting very careful and I'm going to assess adequately what all traits of his mood disorder are I look at his suicidal wishes because I know then there is a severe depression in which biological some of determinants play a role then of course most of the mood disorders are not so much caused by biology physiology or by socio-cultural aspects but later on tonight we maybe change our opinion on this but most in the individualized culture in the West most mood disorders or traits of a mood disorder are produced by psychological determinants psychological mechanisms let's take a few when you are more introverted and extroverted and when you get hurt in social communication you are like a very clean you suck everything in and in the end you forget to empty your sack the full sack and it's it's becoming tough inside and it will influence your mood and also especially when irritation and aggression is gone inside is inward directed instead of outward then the chance that you get mood disorder is bigger then next to your social happenings you are a good soccer player you can lose a question at a soccer field that brings you imbalance but then you have a sport bless you and you are not able to play soccer anymore and then all the aggression stays inside suicidality when you want to kill yourself that is that means that you give yourself the death penalty so bad do you think about yourself so Sufi or other remorses so severe is the self blame so that's one mechanism introjection of aggression we call that then especially in ladies ladies here also I'm not talking about the ladies here but specially in ladies in the Western world you see something else some of these ladies tend to have inside themselves without them knowing it most of the time they have a very critical teacher inside a critical teacher inside their psychological architecture and that teacher tells them every time you're not good enough no no you can do better yeah okay you had a no no you can do better and take care and be more perfectionistic and take all the time for study and then each time the evaluation of the own person the inside evaluation is very critical and a negative this and debt we call that in psychodynamics we call that a very severe super-ego well super ego the values and and and stick in which they measure themselves with is is very single and that critical part of themselves is part of bringing and it's part of fantasized relationships they had an earlier life the internalized that fantasized relationships and they build it up and until is a strong a strong person critical teacher person and I tend to analyze that in my female patients and try to make them conscious of that innovation and then they are going to gradually they are going to feel and see how self-critical they are and in every part of life that self critical attitude is there and forces them in a in a position that's vulnerable so that's in interesting aspects especially female you also find at the meals but more in females also female students nowadays they perform better than the males they are more conscientious that they are more that's all that all has to do of course with a self-critical attitude it also prevents them from enjoyment from lust from being able to feel aggression and erotic feelings but they tend to think a lot and people that move this order they sometimes the only live in their head and they tell you about brooding and the thinking and obsessions and for them it's difficult to relax and listen to their bodily feelings and integrate more their feelings fantasies and express and more so there's a break on their system and the rest at critical topic so you see that invest I think that's typically in the West and it in the end it has to do with our individualization of our culture that is but it started with the ancient Greek and the Romans and we had relations and enlightenment and that all produce individualized people people who who have their own identity their own self it's quite difficult from African or Eastern culture amidst the surroundings and the family are more crucial and there's less pressure on the identity and there's less pressure to develop the own identity so that's one part and other part of the according to my observations in the last 20 years is that of course we had the Millennials we had our Generation Y and a millennial since the 1980s and they were brought up in in a quite prosperous economic period but where everybody has enough money and people were able to develop themselves and to and to work with their own desires and demands and realize their personal wishes and the parents were very careful the decades and when they had to go to the school they brought them on the back bench of the car from the school they had to go to the swimming pool for the swimming lessons the problem the car to the swimming lessons and it didn't need to be outside or in the rain or on the bicycle or walking and parents tend to be very careful and guide the children everything Oh take care don't do this and don't do that so that neurotic attitude which is very much criticized already by ancient philosophers like also and count they already said well you shouldn't do that well but because then you you you the buffer that you create amongst your child doesn't give them the chance to experience life and to experience the social environment and get a a blue eye or bleeding nose or drop from the bicycle in the strong wind or be entirely wet soaking wet come at home and feel that frustration so for your self-esteem wrestling with frustrations is very helpful for the self-esteem in your psychological back office and that was more or less taken out after bringing for a certain generation not the whole generation but bothered and what they did instead of that they painted the front office of those youngsters five minutes three minutes they painted the friend the front office of that youngsters because they came home four years old and he had to drawing from the primary school or the kindergarten and then the parents say Oh beautiful oh what a beautiful drawing everything is perfect it's dead off that the parents Haven okay it's quite nice but you can better you can do better it's all yellow there and there it's still white why not paint a little bit more when you do that the child's immediately trying to improve itself and that's a crucial psychological mechanism in the upbringing having frustration and also having them strive to making the product and itself better so they're their front office that psychological front office is then painted in an easy way the children get the idea of a time I'm fine I'm okay I'm doing good and then you can learn good and then you got good in sports then they are 21 22 and you are for the first time in society having a job in the societal jungle having a job and there after 3 months they get a feedback session from their CEO the manager the criticizes the young lady or man and that sometimes it's the first time in life that they really hear criticism so they get into crisis and they come to us and to ask for help if something well what's happening to me I get a burnout no dee dee talking about burnout when you're 23 and burnout looks like a depression most of the time it is not completely the same but burnout was meant for people who were working 30 years in in education or in health care and now the youngsters are there and in in our and our praxis and asking help and then you see that they were not very much equipped in their back office to tolerate frustration and have a severe tendency to achieve and and were able to have setbacks and drawbacks and then fight back so that back office force that's also crucial for the self-esteem it's lacking a little more than people who were born in the 60s or in the fifties so so there's also that cultural influence on the upbringing and that upbringing is the parents who want to do it really well and that'll be too well and they were a little bit too careful a little bit too much protection and then the and then the possibility to to to tolerate frustration also tolerate depression as a part of daily life nobody is cheerful except peers nobody is cheerful all day long maybe in Africa di I'm very angry to hear about that but normally we have the most normal mood swings and then there is the you need the tolerance for that you need to be able to cope with that thank you very much don't young sorry thanks young we'll be discussing it further a little bit but but no III made a mistake in presenting the the speaker see you because I said we would be listening to now I'm getting confused again I said we would go listening to Angela again but we're not we're going first to bias because that's how the PowerPoint presentations are are structured so otherwise everything would would go wrong and we did put some thought in the structure at some point but now I've I cannot remember why but there will be some something to it so I would like to have a warm welcome for bias Massimo [Applause] hello good evening to everyone I'm pious massima I from Cameroon the english-speaking side of Cameroon and they're like Lisa said I'm a philosopher and an African philosopher and today I will talk to you about the way Africans conceived this number one problem that we face in the Netherlands and all over the world called depression but I know I must begin to professional philosophers so try to go down to add because that may be causing more depression if I start talking lots of conserve and abstract things here you may not get to what I actually want to see and these are all proceed our first of all briefly define what African philosophy is all about explain what intercultural philosophy is all about show you briefly how Afghan philosophy is linked to intercultural philosophy and then I'll go to the heart of the matter how the concept of depression is what what it means in African traditional thoughts and then how the next point I'll look at what are there's a difference how depression is treated or viewed from an Afghan perspective as opposed what obtains in the Netherlands and the rest of the North Atlantic and finally our asses for the mint equation where it is possible for us to use African healing systems or rituals to treat somebody with sorrow from depression in North Atlantic what is a flaw philosophy if I Stan you to define Afghan philosophy you if you are be reading about philosophy globally you realize that Afghan philosophy itself started from frustration depression and today it has moved to impression and admiration what does that mean even if you are depressed depression should be a starting point for you to become a better person and I will show you how in Africa we can move from frustration depression to impression and admiration onion is right to say that players always a very happy person I cover a very happy background in act excited we are dancing in spite of the poverty in spite of the AIDS in spite of their wars we try to be happy and I'll show you what makes us happy when things go wrong I go back there and take my inspiration and continue being happy so why was after Philadelphia feeling so depressed after flosser was so depressed because of racism some Western philosophers said Africans cannot reason Afghan to have a philosophy Africans are primitives Africans are savage is done not enough reason to cause of depression is an original cause depression of frustration where what is arrogance do thanks to other a westerner for a placid temple the Belgian priest he came and said Africans can have a philosophy and from that day all of us have picked up from that frustration and a depression and we are being able to come today and we are talking what are the philosophies all about if you read Hegel you read can you review so I don't go losing liberal Yuri what I said about Africa it was already a starting point for terrible depression terrible frustration but today Afghans lots of eggs is our is this philosophy it is the worldview of the African it is the way Afghans are able to critically examine the essence and existence now there is a problem with this definition because I am going to the next step intercultural philosophy and I will show you how where we define a graph philosophy limiting it to a particular perception we cannot heal depression globally because today we talk of migration we talk of interconnectedness we talk of movements I left the Ondes they are 10 p.m. by six bye-bye 10:00 a.m. I was really in Amsterdam life is moving so fast we are meeting we are migrating we are encountering each other so my techniques of milling migration and depression could also be very instrumental in helping my brothers out here in the Netherlands that is why instead of develop a specific Afghan philosophy I prefer to talk about intercultural philosophy what is intercultural philosophy intercultural philosophy is recognizing the different philosophic traditions from across the globe it is considering that every part of the globe has their own contribution to make as far as philosophizing is concerned and so this has a relevance as far as treating depression is concerned because I have the impression that only one part of the universe or the group think that you know they are depressed and think they hold a monopoly of depression so when Lisa called me I was so happy as let me tell by us brothers sisters how an alternative perspective could contribute to cross fertilize the an ocean and even therapy as a depression is concerned so I will not go as a sphere describing to be defining in the culture philosophy – you bet that is joy what I have in mind and so how is intercultural flosser a link in the culture philosophy like I've mentioned the first thing we have to deconstruct that resists tendency towards Africans second we have to rethink this notion of culture culture is not static it is not fixed East it is not it is open it is performative and so we have to talk of inter culture encounters I leave it there because I know very soon Liz I'll be pointing it I was to me right this time let me touch the heart of the matter now what does the concept of depression mean in African traditional thoughts like I mean knowledge is culturally determined and every community interprets a phenomena in its own way like she mentioned before when I was called to give this paper I sent emails to friends in South Africa to France Nigeria Ghana ask them is there any traditional because I ask my people around how do we call the pressure he said they told me there is no word in our indigenous languages for depression I said come on how come I tried to google all of us / Oliver said imagine it there is no word for that he means that these national depression is something foreign it is something we don't have in our traditional societies however we must not pretend in our modern atrocities today we find the notion depression where in our original villages we don't find depression so I had to walk now with pure villagers to tell me what they actually understand about depression the get no definition be the only gave me some characteristics and let me read them out my colleague Ian Young read some let me tell you what I had in in in Africa they said one so shall we draw two solipsism three physical and verbal violence for well were isolation and lack of the zeal to carry out yet again to the task so these are the characteristics I was given and so when I found out that what causes one to have these characteristics what causes depression the first one they gave me was that a person must have transgressed social norms transgressed social norms what the community puts in place we transgress them it brings the pressure I said ok they said no one they said eh perhaps this person may be possessed by evil spirits ha I said by this is serious the they said perhaps this person has disrupted their relationship he has between his and the ancestors and the rest of nature said well what is a supposed to mean so I started China to find out to do more research and evaluate and let me explain this one that a person has disrupted the relationship between him and the ancestors in African ontology we have one called the vital force this vital force is the force that runs from God through the sub gods the divinities to man to trees to stones and to all of nature this force is the force that gives life now to live in harmony in this great chain of being in this collective ontology you need to respect societal norms you need to follow what the community does if you don't follow you will have lots of trouble in the Afghan traditional society so for them it is participating in this collective ontology that makes a person now come back to that the next one he must have been possessed by an evil spirit that evil spirits are tormenting him first comment in Africa when somebody is seriously ill it may be that he was police approached the person that they reason for evil spirit to touch the person is because they want a person to be transformed to become a healer later on so when you are sick and showing oral symptoms the community just watches you and they pray and pour libation I can show you my collection they have a polarization the elders president stands on boring and all put their hands behind the pour libations and watch because the young man coming or the young lady sick could be could be prepared to become a HeLa why I was taught that therapy that person becomes a better leader or to the ancestors may want to frown on what the lineage or the society is doing and so they make that person to be sick or when you want to install it chief or a leader in the village that person falls sick and goofs and leaves where the answers are to get divine powers and so to understand how depression comes in the Afghan context first of all when you don't participate like an elevation in this collective ontology in this vitae force who their ancestors you can lead to depression if you forget or neglect your ancestors you can lead to depression who our ancestors in our society an ancestor is somebody who lead a good life we call them the Living Dead even though they have died there see alive we Paul I wish I will pray for them you to the Savior the call we have the cause of since I'm a Christian as well we pray for the sins in Africa it is very very active very very lively we are very serious about a polarization it was only to lead a good life who had a family who died a good death don't go and steal and we are short a seance no you cannot be an ancestor you must live a good life and a good dead we call on them we see them in our dreams they come and they speak to us so when you participate in this vitae force you are called an ancestor and so all those who participate in this in this force where we disrupted you are bound to have depression the next point I want to show our just talk briefly African social life is communal istic in theory and practice we call that alpha community communitarianism we are not saying in the West you live in a community in Africa it is so evident they are things like I am because you are and since you are therefore I am John Beatty said that I am because you are since you are therefore I am try that you see things you hardly have depression where you have genuine friends genuine friends I am because you are since you are therefore I am you'll be happy you'll be that's why you – I'm always a happy mother my friends here I know how to tell her I do you don't give me what I want I'll go back to cover or very happy yes the way you don't have Jenny friends when you don't have what absolutely Oh Priya we see at them there is this notion of Ubuntu in South Africa I thought it was a joke this is a South African proverb unto who bulton garment to gamble to a person is a person through other person's tried the pressure cannot be apportioned it is because we avoid other people and I will show you why in your Western community it is so preponderance it is a individual now me who's hitting in pidgin cover onami no a person is a person through other person's if you know other people you cannot make it in our Africa commuter life so we are only be a communal life becomes real life you are born to have depression will call you attempts a witch and perhaps one of the best ways to understand initial person of depression is look at the African notion of personhood and this is another crux of the matter in Africa a person is a relational person a person is one who relates with others who participates with others in fact in our ethics the notion personhood if the value Laden concept you see when you are compassionate tolerant care what us relieve in harmony with a society you are a person so the ultimate goal of every individual is to become a full person or a genuine person to say that someone is a person is one who is friendly who is kind who is hospitable who is caring when you say this person does not have personhood or the person lacks bundu is one with stingy who is greedy who in service etc now philosophers have made the world following the orientation but my dear brothers and sisters read philosophy with a critical eye don't take philosophers for the gospel truth as well those who sit in one corner of the world and delete the piece to the rest of the world read philosophy critically I have a lot of respect for Kant for Hobbes for Locke and the cat where there are some fundamental things they said which seem to be controlling this the rest of the world day the cat says coogee to air bassoon I think I think therefore I am ok aha it's good children are now following your word today I think it is me so see this I shoot everybody and go away no care for community even for the body look at the second meditation does I read the cat on the nature of the human mind that is more easily known than their body so that's what they can says the body for him the body for him no way this dualism between the mind and the body and so we spend our whole time I the ego I was psychologist le revard super-ego etc he my loving that is true that is the Western mind has been fabricated not only fabricated fixed to conceive the person as me alone and I don't blame the Western mind you want to you want to achieve goals I want to be a professor I want to be this I want to be that I was just telling him today don't worry about time here I will tell you about a big alternative about how I got a doctorate late because my professor was well well I was delaying we had been teaching a long time another reason why idly to defend appeals because of children and the Afghan family I cannot leave my brother since that we are leaving the externa family must take care of them way and what I see you must feel is from sighs the way I parents I owe you take them ascend there or in the in the house or the old because wonder why a person ie go it doesn't work that we so all of these cause depression and so when they cat rejects the body as some some that can be rejected Overholt as an engine look at adverts today you finally see nice young boys and girls the old were rejected they have no please it is not correct now question number five is there a difference on how depression is treated or viewed in Africa's who posed to adopt is named Netherlands yes here psychotherapy depression is a private thing you got me the Secretary of historical three Isis Association you talked with him it is called it is very confidential because he is a matter which is the patient and the side under therapists at times we even talk they take appeals and give you countdown this camp a placebo do this do this for yourself in Africa is not a dad Healing is an integral part of the society and religion it is a public thing the whole village comes others is open the yard and you talk and they heal you daily therapies they do the healing days on the private team the whole committee's involved secondly rituals are performed these rituals are performed because they want to create that harmony between you and your community AIA presents those who are dead and the ancestors etc so it is a way of transforming the individual transforming the individual and giving him redress and fulfillment they watch out it is not just the individual always been transformed it is both the individual and the community why because if the individual is sick community also is sick where community is sick the individual is sick so it is a general thing you come out and they look at that so this treatment is holistic they share the by God's by fouls and it kill everybody comes out and eats and drinks in out in in the Oviatt and then a one-shot meeting there is no title in Africa like a therapist or a patient somebody say yes but like I said in Africa the patient ends up in becoming a therapist because of that transformation like I said before so that gap is not there that difference that day and then there is something III don't know what I wrote in CA music dancing singing etc calling the ancestors through the drums to the music some of us are so busy I even dance we don't have time to dance we don't have time to sing through dancing you see that redress the dance in circles oh these are cosmic depression so the dance in circles the dance in circles and when it dance you redress themselves we don't use pills like I said we use cut to who use beads etc the last thing I want to mention before I go is that okay if I am proposing to take use African techniques of therapy African with of therapy you don't have our ancestors how do you do it that's all you can say it's the link with our ancestors our ancestors are there you don't have us as well haha you come to Afghan be healed or how can I help you if you have those difficulties that is why I think Lisa was smart the notion of intercultural philosophy comes in we need to change perspectives I am a Christian an ex seminarian a fervent Catholic I pray the rosary every time I receive Holy Communion it doesn't mean that I don't say you know my Afghan traditional beliefs you can still follow African norms the Afghan we of the community the Afghan way of living the life we have for a society and get healed I don't know some of you might have heard of wim van Vince Bergen he became in sangoma in South Africa a Dutch professor went to South Africa he was very sick where he became sick and the wife he was transformed into HeLa and today Allah as we speak he uses the Internet to do consultation I use untruth the Oracle and comes our advice to counsel people so they weren't as villains because I want to say that please they're not Atlantic there's not a monopoly of knowledge nobody has a monopoly of knowledge we need to cross fertilize each other be humble enough dialogue enough and come out to us or Appu what is happening to you I got my visa only on tears of Friday I was being depressed what happened I send Liz an email send an email please one ELISA rule is are called the embassy before I was called to get my visa if I stand alone in my house would have had to be snow so you don't know any how to dialogue talk out their problems so you have saw fear in the hell you take cigarettes you take be a dick no we have a problem talk it out I spotted her house on Monday or Tuesday by a teller they call me doctor please can you come today I said Wow come on I went there cool depression gone but if you have difficulty you stay with them at home you would die with them go and talk okay another thing I'm a philosopher modernist philosophy please take it with a pinch of salt modernism needs a lot of revisitation the appraisal will tell you later on in school I don't know a lot of you tell for instance this element of religion that I have just pushed aside we show us a religion it's not say it's not fair it is don't mind your material until regard Vanneman there is something like God this is supernatural then the mind has limits idea most was a stressor because we carry so many things in our mind you cannot do everything absolute perfection is not anything of this world where you have limits except I have limits we are devotees consult your friends welcome to them talk to them right if I tell my own problems you don't believe me I talk out to people and they help me talk of them genuinely you walk out belong to social groups you may think that I said no i have schoolmates I have course mates know when you go to church when you go to the football field like a one of my son's is going to watch I ask Amsterdam tomorrow I gave you V in the study was proud to tell me he is going out with his friends and I got a shock for devilish I belong to those groups say operation them consult them talk to them last another list do over take those pills in Africa we take helps before I go back to Iran they all get my general I love have our cheese and helps you use her I relax keep your mind free don't mind the cut don't mind they cut too much yes their mind has limits because their mind husband is in Africa would OC I think therefore I am we see I am related therefore I am I participate therefore arm and if you want it I dance therefore I am thank you thank you so much you made us dance if it's in our minds oh god yeah it's still working I'll put it down for you Angela so you know the time so you know you have some time left and the floor is all yours Angela at all time I wanted to show a little video clip so how do i oh it's already here thank you so what can I say after these two very interesting talks well I took it upon me to talk a little bit about how do we view each other from the different cultures and – so in my title also the word views is a central word and I wanted to show you the video clip do I yes before we start let me know the other clip sorry this one it is a clip which was made by a Danish eight campaign to raise money to fight extreme poverty and this little video clip was made I think in 2016 and it's raised quite some controversy so let us watch it critically a lot of things are commenting on Facebook has been spent on Africa instead of all people in Denmark when we had that when you we had to do something adopted them that's why we started the abductor den foundation we need to fireplace for all its thousands of Aldens need new homes or people are not a burden they are a wonderful gift in Africa will cherish our old people sure we might have contaminated water epidemics and lack electricity but it seems from the facebook comments that orders hours off please let us take care of them remember because sleep cycle house party the first orders have already arrived and they are having a blast tan Mac needs warm hands down here we've got plenty so please Africa open your hearts to adopt Eden phenomenon this kind of video is called sometimes culture jamming it's meant to as critique certain aspects of culture difficult in different manners and I heard you laughing all the time the music is quite confusing it criticizes stereotypical images Africans help us angry etc if criticizes self-centeredness also complaining Europeans immigration and the video itself was also very highly criticized so why people said it exploited other stereotypes of African TSA's non individualistic and community centered and if they are also happy although vice said it is true but some people in Europe think that it says a simple simplification or romance a deeper level at which this videos criticizes that it keeps the traditional ways of fundraising out of the picture so some people say fundraising charity should not be a way to help poor people it should be structural changes in economic partnerships etc now what do we think this video showed some don't forget my I told this already that my video this video criticized stereotypes so how can we speak about African or Western or European images on mental illness or depression some people say no you cannot say that African is he Africa is a huge continent with so many cultures and I always say well why then would we speak about Western or European that's also generalization person from Switzerland is very different from a person from Norway or from England or wherever on Europe so the key is zooming in and zooming out when you zoom in you see things in their locality in their specificity when you zoom out you can say general picture and you can speak about things that are African or European so I don't have a problem with generalizations as such as long as you know that it's zooming out and that you should zoom in again to say things that are specific and also when you talk about how do we view each other how can we speak about depression or mental illness in Africa or in Europe in generality we should never forget that these phenomena are frayed happened in the framework of historical economic and political events and these also make the specific flavor of our images like in the video we just saw so with that in mind generalizations can help to learn from each other and now I want to say also something about another video clip which shows just one example from a kind of preventive mental health care in Zimbabwe which is a country with which has like many African countries many structural problems in public spending and public infrastructure and as you can see on the slide that it has only 12 public health psychiatrists in the whole country which is very little so can we see this next video it's about the grandmothers tough odds were Auggie's all the time with a husband about money Zimbabwe's worsening economic crisis doesn't help matters she became depressed because there was no one she felt comfortable talking to about her problems then she heard about the grandmother health providers and their friendship benches this grandmother helped me she said every marriage has problems in that I must not give up when Rosemarie McCarty's husband died his family evicted her and the children from the house this happens a lot to women in Zimbabwe I was going to figurative it was very disappointed with this first bench it helped me so much friendship benches are simple looking wooden benches place outside state-run health centers doctors call it basic problem-solving therapy the grandmothers get a few weeks training learning how to give advice and listening to people's problems something they already do as elders in their own families they say they feel needed some people dead because of lack of knowledge some committed suicide because of liquids knowledge they may know people to discuss the appropriate skill Zimbabwe's public health system like other sectors is suffering financial crisis doctors say they're only 12 public health psychiatrists in the whole country one in four people can be affected with mental health disorders not just in Zimbabwe it's a global problem if you look at the World Health Organization's estimates right now by 2020 which is essentially in three years time depression alone will be the leading cause of disability globally the grandmothers are paid of basic salary by the state but there isn't enough cash to expand the help program nationwide for now the Friendship benches are only found in Jeju Giza where and some parts of the capital Harada they are about 300 trained health providers so far nearly 28,000 people have received free counselling doctors and patients say the Friendship benches are working doctors say for now the Friendship benches are only found in Zimbabwe but they believe they could be utilized in communities anywhere in the world and sometimes simple interventions are the most effective how do Matassa aljazeera hardy okay so I think this clip shows a form of what I call preventive health care it's preventive it is not in the sense that these people not already have problems who are helps but that they these elders these grandmother's have helped to solve problems before they get out of hand and lead to whose severe depressions so what is some you can say two things about this video on one hand it has to do also with structural poverty so you don't have trained psychiatrists so you train all the women who have time on their hands to just sit on the bench and give people advice about the problems the other thing which is interesting is that they are termed grandmothers and that adds something to the story that the pious told us when he said we take care of people in the family I think the term family in this sense is taken in a very wide sense so when you call someone a grandmother who's not your biological grandmother that's very normal in African context I think to speak of younger people as your sons or your cousins or your so you you give people family names and that makes you to us to a family in a certain way and in that sense only the name you gave of the people who helped you change is something in how you feel things so but I have to cut it short I think Lisa yes so this more or less recaptures bit what supplies tools much more elaborately that's when you spoke about health care in the village so that's traditional health care and traditional forms of health care all over the world are less focused on cure or treatment but more focused on prevention and when you speak about mental health there are certain African cultural elements which may be especially good in terms of prevention because of this focus on what's called Ubuntu which is a term for this being connected being a part of this life energy which flows through all that is that is so it's the interconnectedness of all life now here are some elements of traditional healing I have only one more slide after this to say something about a Western view because I want to look and how at how do we feel each other so these are things which may peel or appalled Western Westerners when they think of traditional healing so healing is not identical to curing you cure a disease or you cure a certain problem but healing is more holistic healing looks on the disrupted relations rituals may support this is also recapturing of what we already heard another element is that when you go to a healer you give offerings instead of paying so offerings is giving something back to the community because you your relations with the community are disturbed so when you give something to the community this may already help you to heal to reorder your life towards communal goals and values and that maybe possibly combined with herbal or dietary treatments so what are the main elements of modern therapy I cannot be too specific of course and not especially it's like young derrickson we heard before but these are some elements I think which may be very visible when I from a non European perspective would look at Western therapy so what is very interesting in our approach she said we are making a lot of efforts to understand how the brain or how emotions work we are also focused on interventions and dysfunctional wirings like for instance e/m they are a very well known therapy now to cure trauma psychological trauma of course we are very well known for using medicines to suppress certain aspects of severe disorders and the the last word is the last bullet is more about what especially psychoanalysis has developed but it's also in a lot of Western therapies it's key elements that we look towards understanding our mental problems that we are also focused on expressing what's Hertz's on articulating suppressed memories it's in many therapies it's important and on empowering through the speech through these articulations through finding words through naming things by making certain things conscious which you had forgotten or were not aware of the person who suffers from mental problems and I think that especially this last element which is also expressive of the whole Western tradition of philosophy and trying to understand life this curiousness on of how a work does it work and who are we and how can we find language for it I think that's something which the Western approach has to contribute to the intercultural dialogue on mental health issues so I will to leave it here and we have a discussion afterwards thank you [Applause] yes please join us in the corner all right sorry before I start as opposed to what was mentioned on our website we will we will not end this this program tonight at 10:00 but at 9:45 which leaves us 25 minutes which is not a lot but fortunately a lot has been said let's dive into matters further for about 10 minutes and then I'll I'm sure you've got a lot of questions so I went to attend to those two but first um I'm curious as to what you think of the role of the therapist in so if we take the the African perspective it seems that therapists are might not be really needed we could choose grandmothers maybe we could use our our friends our family we should talk to them more how what is how is that for you as a as a clinical psychologist yes I can I can understand it I mean as as human animals we are integrated in our biology efficiency and we are integrated in our social cultural processes but in the African culture the integration in the social structures and the cultural patterns is much stronger and and and that integration is very much a support for the psychological processes and in our individualized culture we are integrated the same way but we do not experience the social integration in the way like they do that in Africa and we experience our individual disorders also really individually so we need our psychotherapy and I don't think you can change that for us those grandmother's wouldn't we no no no and we've tried that many times and we have had a minister of health care who said well the neighbor is also very well but that for people who are really we're really informed about this topic that's nonsense for for our structure our intrapersonal our psychological architecture it's different from birth or the way in which we are psychologically for form tends to do with our attachment relationship and our attachment relationship is culturally structured and in Cameroon the attachment relationship is completely different as a completely different structure so the internal psychological world is different so then you're referring to the fact that whereas in the West we we generally live as a nuclear family so yes a mother and there's a father in their children in Cameroon in most African countries you have the families extended yeah yeah and and the personal differentiation and the articulation of your personal desires and wishes in the West is much stronger it's based about our 2,000 years of history and and so that forms our needs and that forms our desires and you cannot say well now you go dancing in the West and that will cure your depression no for some people maybe but not not as a cure for everybody although I like it very much when I hear it but I see the way in which people are socially integrated is so different that I can understand very well that the way in which you approach those disorders if they are there is also completely different and that's that's also good it's equally good for them as it our way is for us yeah but that's interesting so there there seems to be I don't know there seems to be for us and West the idea that maybe we can learn something from the African culture when we we thought about would ya program for you tonight it was we had the idea that we can learn something from other cultures but are we idealize him when we do this and this is a question I think for you playas as well are you idealizing the West may be as we are idealizing Africa anyway and what is when does that go wrong what can it teach you and when does it go wrong absolutely not I'm happy I'm very happy with what John has said well let me define the outcome from lien okay it is not just extended even children to be born a part of our family that's why for a girl to commit an abortion if it is terrible so girls abortion you know today we took and then those who have data sirs also part of the Afghan family I mentioned something about intercultural philosophy boring hospitalizing in fact a modern-day psychiatrist like in Zimbabwe is much needed in Africa as well thanks are changing globalization Mattie's capital visit me soon we may come there with his iooks depressions that's the fires career and we are Lions problems I all know they are done way very informal psychotherapists so we need the two and I think Jan even though the West has been constructed 2,000 years ago following certain norms I've mentioned on the air we need to change perspective they are Selina's we need to deconstruct this notion of community my brother's designation of community is very very important if it is nowhere neat and and constructed here we are all young who let us try on that building of a new community where we meet an absolute other people I think so but maybe then so ok build a new community community but without idealizing what it can give us or without the idealization well you idealize a community you romanticize it yeah it becomes an absolute and like in my own view of intercultural philosophy absolutes have no please no please the takuna philosophy is a construction of numerous relatives it is a synthesis not a syncretism it is a synthesis coming together it is difficult but that's why we are experts let us forge ahead on look for new ways of striking the balance between the absolutes and the relatives that's why we look at the way I was explaining in the culture philosophy you have they generalize perspective and a particular perspective and I've always tried to frown at those who sit at one end of the world and gee teach at the rest of the world because that I would have told you other thing about human ethics interpreting things in the India context and we all agree that we look at it on that perspective we all move on yeah I think that's also why I introduced these terms zooming in and zooming out because zooming out means that you can look at the culture in a general way without absolute izing because you know that you're zooming out so I can say Africa and seven more communal society or whatever are more holistic way of seeing in the world and I know that's it in that moment I'm zooming out because it would be different when I was speaking speaking about certain people in The Gambia or about a certain specific history in Kenya or whatever so it's always a generalization and also when we talk about Europeans or Westerners as if we were the same since the ancient Greeks ancient Greeks would be more like Africans I think then we would like but we we construct our identities and the other side entities and that's not a problem as long as we know that it's a temporary thing to understand and to confront and compare and then you can move on and no that's in the end of course we are all humans dealing with the same extension issues about deaths and health and not bellowing and being frustrated or also the joys but in what sense then to return to depression specifically is it is this an existential problem that is shared so worldwide so you mentioned there's no word for it in most in any African language that tells us something but there was something interesting going on in what you said about how it is construed depression in in Africa social withdrawal solipsism and isolation I noted these three so there's can you relate this young to to the to the Western take of depression is it there is it similar well it is similar in a certain way when you look at the pression at the deeper seated core of a mood disorder is relational either the relationship with yourself you internalized auto-set the critical ladies inside yourself or teacher inside yourself that's also a internalization of a formal relationship when you are more introverted you connect less that's what they do that's what they fight against in Africa they express themselves more also in dance so when you are more introverted you disconnect from people from your social community and and then you interject aggressive feelings it means that you do not express that aggression so so when you look at it from the relational point of view you can't state that every depression has a disorder a disturbance of an intimate relationship and there I think yes or and and and that somebody else in yourselves and internalisation so in that sense we are talking about same things agree it just tells us again the fundamental unity of humankind yes tell us we talk of existential special abuse what's a solipsism those are all English words they are all Universal yeah so it comes back to this element of you know ha ha for the Midtown oneness we make it more complicated in the best vvv no it's it's it's it's part of our our very different ideological structures in our society so we internalize more and then we make a mess of it and you make less a mess of it you express it on your part of the subgroup and no I think that's a generalization a simplification from my connections with people from Africa I know that they also can make things very difficult for themselves or for other model is before before you ask the question and is absolute named John Devine el balon would even be head of a movie before no wouldn't be important African philosophy very important it's also an incredible incomprehensible miracle this element of appropriation that cultures will be ready to learn look at Christianity Chris anything left Europe our teams of Africa but today's Africa's Rock American vets hey yo man rest of the world I become some up republic Christianity and you go all over the place Christian he doesn't mean

From Bacteria to Bach I Lecture by philosopher Daniel Dennett



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From Bacteria to Bach: Extending Darwin’s Vision | Lecture by philosopher Daniel Dennett
Wednesday 17 October 2018 | 19.30 – 21.15 hrs | De Vereeniging, Nijmegen

Why can we reflect and why do we have consciousness? How did we come to have minds? According to the American philosopher Daniel Dennett, mind and consciousness are no more and no less mysterious than other natural phenomena. Come listen to Daniel Dennett and learn all about his view on our minds and evolution.

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good evening good evening ladies and gentlemen this is slightly intimidating so I will take off my glasses also I read better without glasses it gives me very great pleasure to extend a warm welcome to all of you to this beautiful concert hall on behalf of a lot about reflects the academic and cultural outreach program of about University I'm especially honored to address a word of welcome to professor of Daniel Dennett who is still backstage who cannot see him now but he is really there I think for this audience it makes no sense to give him very long introduction about Daniel Dennett you probably all know that he works on the philosophy of mind the philosophy of science cognitive science and also on evolutionary biology he has a very broad spectrum of topics he is the author of influential books such as for example consciousness explained a really influential book and also Darwin's dangerous idea now then it is a kind of philosopher who is not limited to a small narrow academic audience but he extends to a very wide audiences which is probably the reason why you are so incredibly numerous here tonight in 2012 he was awarded the prestigious Cosmo surprise exactly in recognition of his influential work four years later in 2016 he visited Nami and he visited about University and he gave a lecture in this concert hall on the topic of free will under the very challenging title free will is as real as colors promises and euros it's up to you to decide how real that is today you have all found your way to this concert hall again to listen to Deniz view on another fundamental topic namely the question how it is possible that a comprehending underst sending mind arises from a mindless process of natural selection what can we learn from computer science what can we learn from biology to understand the emergence of mind and consciousness the program of this evening is very simple and very straightforward in a few minutes then he'll Dennett will deliver his lecture which is where you all come from I come for after this lecture he will discuss his views in further detail with your Linh funkin yo lien works at the donors Institute of this University and she has recently been awarded a grant from the Executive Board of about University to study and improve the conceptual foundations of the neurosciences and in her work your Linh makes ample use of Dennis ideas so she's in a perfect position to engage in a critical dialogue with Dennis now as some of you know Daniel Dennett visits name a have were very specific reason tomorrow when about University celebrates its 95th anniversary he will receive an honorary Doctorate before I give the floor to Daniel Dennett another Daniel everybody is called Daniel tonight another Daniel namely Daniel with boulders the president of the Executive Board of about University will say a few words for the reasons of awarding this honorary Doctorate to Daniel Dennett and also he will say a few words about his personal interests in then its ideas my name is Paul Becker I am director of about reflects and I wish you all a very inspiring evening and the floor is now to Daniel Biss bolas [Applause] thank you very much poll welcome to all of you on behalf of our Executive Board the Executive Board of La Paz University we are having a party a huge party as you can see our university exists for 95 years and when you're having an anniversary you give out gifts and we have been enduring enjoying during this past week already terrific gifts we have the great pleasure to be able to morrow during the official party to that we have four honorary doctorates one honorary doctoral for a writer you whom brower's and three honorary doctorates four top scientists Marybeth Steve Pacala and also Daniel Dennett and Daniel Dennett is the reason why you are probably here and I want to share a few thoughts with you about him based on my own personal experience when I was a student in psychology in 1993 and I was finishing up my study and thinking about becoming a PhD student some of you might remember it on the Dutch television there was a series called and Switzerland on holic by VIN Kaiser a glorious accident it was six top scientists thinking aloud interacting with each other about the world about science and about human kinds and human knowledge it had a huge impact on me our motto as a university is change perspective watching this series really changed my perspective and Daniel Dennett was one of the main reasons so that holiday I went on on a cycling holiday with my dead time girlfriend now wife who's in the room as well and this is my time to officially apologize to her because I brought on the cycling holiday with me the book machinist explains and I guess I was more attentive to the book then to my wife but nevertheless she became my wife that's how the mind works after reading consciousness explains I dare to say I knew that I wanted to become a PhD student that I wanted to be a scientist that there were more lessons I learned I learned that the mind is not only something you can study with that the mind is also something you can study things about I became a materialist the starting material list I was very interested in the mind in terms of the metaphysical part but also in the thinking part and by reading consciousness explained these two became related to me which was really important perhaps even more importantly if you write a book and also if you read the latest book from bacteria to birth by Daniel Dennett's the way he describes his thinking the way he is scientific to me is what science is all about almost every sentence there is doubt about our own thinking I learned today already that even after writing the book last year today he is already questioning the things he has written about last year and this is what science is all about it's not only about getting the answers it's also about posing the right questions and rephrasing them and now always believe in your own ideas but also be willing to accept changes to these ideas to develop them further I think Daniel Dennett really exemplifies what changing your perspective means changing the perspective of other with others by writing great books but also keep on changing your own perspective of what we know about the mind and so on therefore I'm extremely honored that tomorrow our University will hand out an honorary Doctorate to Daniel Dennett and I'm even more honored today on this stage to be able to introduce to you professor dr. Daniel Dennett [Applause] good evening it's delightful to be back in Nijmegen in the Netherlands a place I have grown to love over the years and I'm happy to see so many of you here so from bacteria to Bach extending Darwin's vision that's my title and here's the American cover of the book yes it's updated just for well there's a bacterium and there's by now long way from a bacterium to Bach and the organism that I think can tell us the most about that long trajectory is this one Charles Darwin now some people when they see me think that maybe I carry my love of Darwin too far I don't know about that but in any case I'm going to begin as I so often do with Charles Darwin and his strange inversion of reasoning as a critic of his put it back in 1868 excuse me and I will I'll read this passage I love to read it because it's it's the work of a irate Englishman in high dudgeon in the theory with which we have to deal absolute ignorance is the artificer so that we may enunciate as the fundamental principle of the whole system that in order to make a perfect and beautiful machine it is not requisite to know how to make it the caps are in the original this proposition will be found on careful examination to express in condensed form the essential purport of the theory and to express in a few words all mr. Darwin's meaning who by a strange inversion of reasoning seems to think absolute ignorance fully qualified to take the place of absolute wisdom in all the achievements of creative skill exactly that is Darwin's theory that is the purport of the theory and it is a strange inversion of reasoning it is so strange that many people especially many of my countrymen simply cannot get their heads around it and see that it could be true let alone that it is true but now I want to raise a puzzling question supposing we accept Darwin's strange inversion of reasoning then we have the following puzzle how can a process with no intelligent designer create intelligent designers who can then design things that permit us to understand how a process with no intelligent designer can create intelligent designers who can then design things now there's a question is it just a rhetorical question does it point to an embarrassing contradiction in the theory of natural selection no it doesn't but it is tricky to answer I'm going to start with my favorite diagram of the Tree of Life this is Len Eisenberg's you can find it on his web site and what you see I'll just point out a few things if I've got the does the hello I know whoops and push the wrong button yeah now we'll red light no the real red light isn't working okay the today is out on the periphery all the organisms that are alive today are represented on the periphery of this diagram the origin of life you see in the centre of the picture about three and a half billion years ago and you see that it began with bacteria and archaea and perhaps this diagram is now out of date and the archaea should come first as the name suggests then I could have called the book I don't know from archaea to Aristotle or something but very important is the next item on the list and that's the eukaryotes because all the things you see in that colorful fan-out are eukaryotes to a first approximation every living thing that you can see with the naked eye is a eukaryote you are sharks are pine trees are birds and fish the corn sponges you name it they're all you Kerris that is to say they're made of eukaryotic cells and that very dramatic fan-out is all a result of a remarkable collision that occurred as you can see several billion years ago but as you can also see there were bacteria for quite a while for more than a billion years there were archaea embarque bacteria and no eukaryotes so here we have a diagram that shows what happened on the left you see a bacterium on the right you see a eukaryotic cell and you'll notice that the eukaryotic CEL is considerably larger and more complicated that has more moving parts how did this come about well the answer now finally in the textbooks after a very rigorous and embattled campaign by Lynn Margulis it came about in the following way here's to bacteria back in the old days when there were no eukaryotes and for a billion years bacteria and archaea bumbled around and bumbled around every now and then they'd collide and sometimes they'd destroy each other sometimes a would eat B take it apart use the materials get the energy sometimes B would eat a from the inside and very rarely it only had to happen once instead of either one destroying the other they stayed together and they became a single team and that was the endo symbiotic origin of the eukaryotic cell in other words two unicellular very simple organisms became a single one and the single one was fitter more capable than either of the parts by themselves this was a bit of joining together which was fruitful not harmful that's a rare thing to happen but it can happen so what it was was a great case of technology transfer because each of these individual separate organisms had its own evolutionary history of R&D research and development had developed talents that had been honed for a long time so it came equipped with many competences and when the competences were put together on this occasion they to complement each other so you got a more fit more capable microorganism as a result and the result of that union is the Tree of Life that I've already shown you now let's zoom in on that Tree of Life and let's zoom in a little bit more and we can see and we would see if I got my it's just that way don't hit the wrong button again no it's too bright a screen I guess that little Y that's up about the fourth and fifth little sprig there that's about six million years the branches of that Y that's about how long it's been since chimpanzees and human beings parted company from a common ancestor out of about six million years and on one of those branches human beings our descent our ancestors appeared and the reason I've gone to the trouble of telling you about the endosymbiotic origins of the eukaryotic cells I want to say that something similar has happened much more recently and much more swiftly but it means you've got to think of evolution as R&D is research and development it's a design process that exploits information in the environment to create maintain and improve the design of things now it takes time and energy lots of time billions of years and uncountable trillions of failures in order to gradually optimize the design of these eukaryotic cells and the multicellular organisms that are made of them there are two main varieties of our D evolution by natural selection and human intelligent design notice small I small D I'm talking about people like youth intelligent designers we are all intelligent designers some of us are very successful intelligent designers of works of art or poetry or automobiles or can openers or mathematical proofs are just ways of decorating your house or whatever it is you are an intelligent designer now the process is different fundamental ways evolution on the one hand is purposeless and has no foresight and it's extremely costly and slow intelligent design on the other hand is purposeful somewhat foresighted but we know many cases of misbegotten projects of intelligent design which fail to anticipate bad side effects as cohorts governed by cost considerations and it's usually relatively fast well evolution may be slow and costly but it is brilliant Francis Crick the co-discoverer of the structure of DNA once put it forward as what he called Oracle's second rule teasing his colleague Leslie Orgel which is evolution is cleverer than you are now what did he mean this is not an this is certainly not an intelligent design theorist this is as much as anybody in the history of the 20th century the person most responsible for the knowledge we now have of how evolution and genomics and genetics work what he meant was time and again biologists have been puzzled by phenomena of nature which seemed to them to be poorly designed ill-designed a mess a problem only eventually to figure out no no there was a delicious excellence to the design they were looking at they just weren't smart enough to see what it was until later evolution is cleverer than you are now this raises an interesting problem when we look at a contrast between the products of evolution on the one hand and intelligent design on the other and here's my favorite example hello there it is on the left you see an Australian termite castle I had the great good fortune to spend several weeks in the North End on the top end of Australia a few weeks ago and got to see thousands of these on the right of course is La Sagrada família the great church in Barcelona where I'm going on Friday these are favorite examples of mine now they are both products they're both artifacts made by animals artifacts made by eukaryotes termites are pretty clueless pretty stupid pretty my topic they don't really know what they're doing or why but they do what they do slavishly and well and the results are spectacular but there's no boss termite there's no architect a termite there's no blueprint that's entirely unlike the case of la Sagrada família Gaudi was this the archetypal mad genius charismatic intelligent designer he had manifestos and blueprints and explanations and money and he hired people and he lorded it over his his assistants who lorded it over their assistants who lorded it over their since this is top-down intelligent design and construction completely unlike the process that created the termite castle even though the two of them looked at even that a fairly deep and internal level look very similar so we have two artifacts two products of design they look very similar but the processes that made them are stunningly different and here's the puzzle we have bottom-up design termite type design we have top-down design and now I'm a you by pointing out that a termite colony might have as many as say 70 million clueless termites your brain might be 80 billion even more clueless neurons but if you want to see a neuron in action here's a little case of a termite groping out myopically in making and breaking connections with another neuron in a petri dish but they do that during development and in fact throughout life so here's the puzzle as I say termite colony might have 70 million clueless termites on the brain might have 86 billion clueless neurons how do you get well how do you get a Gaudi type mind out of a termite colony brain your brain is more like a termite colony than you might have imagined semi-autonomous roughly independent neurons how do you get even 80 billion clueless neurons to organize themselves so that you get a Gaudi that can make the Sagrada família when a termite colony can do some pretty wonderful things but they can't they can't do the things that we intelligent designers can do now I'm going to give you the short answer to this question which I got from a student of mine and some years ago you can't do much carpentry with your bare hands then you can't do much thinking with your bare brains bode album created that nice boom we'll think about it you need tools to be a carpenter and you need tools to be a thinker a termite colony is if you like a bare brain it doesn't have any thinking tools intelligent designers have well equipped brains lots of thinking tools primarily language diagrams blueprints levels plumb Bob's measuring sticks calculators all the rest so when did these intelligent designers get their tools and the answer that question is very very recently if you look at that six million year old Fork to the right of the diagram you realize that the thinking tools of our species we can measure in only a few thousands of years maybe 50,000 or we could say a million and I'll give you an example of a million year old tool a little later on well how did they get their tools well here's the wrong answer from Freeman Dyson technology is a gift of God after the gift of life it is perhaps the greatest of God's gifts it is the mother of civilizations of arts and of Sciences I agree with everything in this quotation except the first sentence technology is not a miraculous gift of God that was Freeman Dyson now I'm going to give you the long answer technology the thinking tools we need to turn a termite brain into a human mind come from cultural evolution not genetic evolution that is designed thinking tools that impose novel structures on our brains you might say that these are evolved virtual machines to use the term that software engineers like to use or as I like to put it look they are apps that we download into our net cops that's what I'm doing right now so be careful I'm trying to download apps into your neck tops so that you can think about things in a way you couldn't before you've heard me and they had the source of our power and versatility and they are do as much as anything else for one person Alan Turing and he had his own strange inversion of reasoning I'm going to model it on Beverly's outrage the count of Darwin's strange inversion here's Darwin's in order to make a perfect and beautiful machine it's not requisite to know how to make it and Touring's is in order to be a perfect and beautiful computing machine it is not requisite to know what arithmetic is in Torrance day computers were people they read maths and university most of them were women they were paid to compute and they needed to know what arithmetic was it was a it was a technical job and he realized no no this can be done by a machine that doesn't even know what arithmetic is and that was as good as anything the birth of the computer now Darwin and touring had strange and versions of reasoning which fit together beautifully and the theme that they agree on is one which has become sort of my motto my bumper sticker the the concept if you walk away from here with one idea I want you to have this in your head competence without comprehension remember what Beverley said about Darwin that the process that Darwin described had no understanding at all no foresight no intention it was a stupid blind mechanical process and touring gives us a computer which similarly doesn't understand anything well it understands add and subtract but only and equal to zero and conditional branching but it doesn't really it only understands them as operations that it performs with exquisite regularity and reliability you put the two eyes ideas together and you get the rather startling inversion and that is that mind consciousness and understanding is the effect not the cause now this really is a strange inversion from a very traditional way of thinking about how we got here think of the Sistine Chapel and Michelangelo's God putting the finishing touches on atoms that's the ultimate top-down intelligent designer image of how things got started and here Darwin and Turing are just turning that upside down well you know termites are not intelligent designers beavers build an but they are not there beavers are not very intelligent designers either we in fact are the first intelligent designers in the Tree of Life in over three billion years of evolution we're the only really intelligent designers that have been created and what I'm saying is that the key the key innovation was a little bit like the eukaryotic revolution it was the unification of independent streams of R&D into more powerful entities an example of this which is worth considering is what I call the McCready explosion well let me go back a moment if you notice what where is it why is it not there there we are you see how everything fans out very fast there in the middle of the diagram and it says the Cambrian explosion that is in a very short period of time by evolutionary standards there was a tremendous increase in in the different different species there was a very great productivity of innovation creating all those different lineages of eukaryotes quite swiftly the Cambrian explosion made famous by Steve Gould in this book wonderful life now the McCready explosion is much more recent and let's Swifter Paul MacCready some of you may know him he as a as a wonderful green engineer he's the one who designed the gossamer albatross the bicycle powered plane that flew across the English Channel he's a full of brilliant ideas about how to exploit energy in in ecologically sound ways for instance and here's what he has to say that 10,000 years ago human population plus livestock and pets was approximately a tenth of a percent of the terrestrial vertebrate biomass that is if you put all the animals but not all the insects and not the fish in the sea if you put all the animals on one side of the scale it would tip down way in favor of all those animals and human beings plus they've begun at this birth of agriculture they had begun to domesticate animals so you put their their livestock and their pets and their and the people and it would be not even 1% of the total weight today it's a little higher some of you may have seen this slide before but let's look at some suggestions from how what's a percentage today's many your buddy hazard a guess 90 no 98 our species and its domesticated animals have overwhelmed the planet in 10,000 years that is the fastest biggest biological change in the history of life on the planet faster and bigger than the eukaryotic revolution and it's happened in the last 10,000 years and it's due to one species and its powers and that's us that's a biological fact it's a political fact it's a social fact but it's also a biological an undeniable biological fact and it requires a biological explanation how did this happen here's what McCready has to say about it over billions of years on a unique sphere chance has painted a thin covering of life complex improbable wonderful and fragile suddenly we humans have grown in population technology and intelligence to a position of terrible power we now wield the paintbrush and so we do something that should resonate for all of us and we should think about what we're gonna do with that power in our own lifetimes in the immediate future but what I want to point out today is that this was another great technology transfer it was the invasion of human brains by symbiotic thinking tools I mean that not metaphorically I mean it literally these tools evolved by natural selection they don't have genes but they evolved by differential replication in the cultural realm there what Dawkins calls memes and he first wrote about them in the book The Selfish Gene several other authors had same idea earlier but he's the one that see several people had the idea of evolution by natural selection before Darwin too but Darwin is the one who figured out how to say it right and marshal the evidence for it and Dawkins I think deserves credit for for putting this idea in the clearest and most replicable form we don't inherit them via our genes and we don't have to design them ourselves or am I may be wrong about that how many of you could have could have designed calculus or even alphabetization how many of you have coined a word were created a language could you invent the clock let alone the television set let alone the microscope or telescope we are all gifted with these treasures these design treasures we don't get them through our genes we get them through our culture and they're not just concrete things like telescopes and microscopes with cameras so forth their ideas in fact primarily they're ideas ideas that differentially replicate and that take up lodging in our brains and give us the power to be the gaudi's and box of this world our brains are stocked with good thinking tools nobody has to design them they're designed by differential replication of memes well what are memes well they're not that strange a lot of people get very antsy and metaphysical at this point I don't I don't think that means exists they seem to be awfully abstract and it's just sort of mystical no not at all memes are made of information but then what are they like I'll give you some other examples habits ways of doing things you can learn a habit from somebody might be a good habit might be a bad habit you pick up a way of doing something it replicates in you and then maybe it gets passed on to somebody else words words are the best example of memes they aren't invented by people with the very few exceptions dawkins coined the term meme most of the words 99.9% of all the words in the dictionary were invented by nobody coined by nobody they're very good words they're just as good as the words that have been coined they're very well designed to do the job they do and they're designed by differential replication not by anything else numbers poems symphonies theories proofs algorithms these are all perfectly real things don't ask what their atomic structure is don't ask whether they're made of carbon or molybdenum or oxygen whether they're carbohydrates they are informational things and none the worse for it they're as real as they can be and they differentially replicate and spread from mind to mind now the Macready explosion is an explosive amplification of competence and it began as competence without comprehension and then it evolved into competence with comprehension so we started off with Darwin's strange and version of recently and now cultural evolution has reinvented Darwin's strange inversion we're going to move from competence without comprehension to competence with comprehension we're going to evolve intelligent designers using unintelligent design processes as the machine that doesn't work now in order to make sense of this you may want to use a term that I introduced I'm not too happy with the term now but I'm stuck with it they've been using it for 2 million years and that's free floating rationales a free flatting floating rationale is a reason for doing something that doesn't have to be represented in anybody's head for it to be the reason for instance trees do things for reasons but they don't represent them in the little tree minds they don't have to evolution takes care of that there are reasons why the trees do what they do grow their branches where they do and so forth but they're not reasons that are represented anywhere until some clever botanist comes along and reverse engineers the tree and figures out what the reason is then for the first time the reason becomes anchored in a representation of a reason but it didn't have to be represented for it to be endorsed by natural selection Bunji do things for reasons the biotic world is saturated with reasons from the molecular scale on up ribosomes have the shape they have DNA has the structure it has because there are there are good reasons for it to be this way rather than some alternative way and we can figure those reasons out even though those reasons we're never represented by any intelligent designer by any manifesto or blueprint of any intelligent designer also notice that we do things for reasons we shiver we vomit we blink for reasons that we don't have to know the reasons in order to appreciate it but we also do things deliberately for reasons that we'd also also don't have to appreciate there are many reasons many more reasons why things are done and why things have the shape they have and so forth that are not represented then the reasons that are represented but our ass our vision of ourselves as intelligent designers tends to ignore that and always look for reasoner an intelligent designer who figured out and articulated the reason in advance but that's just not necessary we also choose to side and act for reasons that we don't need to appreciate so here's the problem that culture solves how do we get a bach mind or a gaudi mind out of a termite colony brain how do we get intelligent design with representation of reasons out of 86 billion mindless neurons and I'm saying that the answer is it's the second great endosymbiotic revolution human culture or to put it bluntly we're Apes with infected brains our brains have been invaded by thousands and thousands of thinking tools our vocabularies our practices our habits our customs our ways of doing things they ask what gives our mind their power in the same way the apps on your cell phone give yourself own the power we don't have to design them we're just their beneficiaries and we use them very well because they've been designed both to replicate easily and to be user-friendly now I'm going to dash ahead a little bit and say just a little bit about a recent thinking tool which I much admire and highly recommend to you becomes from peter godfrey Smith's book Darwinian populations and natural selection and he creates diagrams like this one it's a three space a a cube and you have three axes X Y Z of course we can thank they card for that thinking tool the Cartesian coordinates and so every point in that three space represents a value of these and you can put whatever variables you want on the axes and there are many more variables than three so Godfrey Smith just chooses a few and and this is one that looks at evolution I don't know yes you can see this I think so on the x-axis he has fidelity of heredity it's got to be high if your if your if your DNA doesn't replicate with high fidelity you lose whatever you gain in selection before it gets a chance to be established see going up the y-axis continuity smoothness of fitness landscape if if the landscape of fitness of selection is too chaotic too too jagged you won't get natural selection occurring and then H is no ass on the z axis is dependence on of realized Fitness differences on intrinsic properties an example of a non intrinsic property would be luck we could have an evolutionary tournament a coin toss calling tournament with the people in this room and I would guess that the tournament we could produce in the next half an hour somebody who had just won eight consecutive coin tosses without a loss pretty special would that person be any more likely to win the next coin toss no because luck is in the intrinsic property if it was a tennis tournament on the other hand yes whoever won the tournament would have a good chance of winning the next game so that's an important dimension for evolution it won't work where there aren't intrinsic properties well now I want to take in in in Godfrey Smith diagram he usually puts the Darwinian population the exemplar the paradigm case in the in the upper for our right corner this is where all three dimensions are high and that's where you get your parade cases of evolution and the cases farther away from there their evolution like they're sort of evolutionary they may have some of the features of natural selection but they're not entire the natural selection but now I want to point out that when we get to cultural evolution we want to invert the diagram now we want to put the Darwinian cultural evolution down in the lower left hand corner that's termite castle culture this is our ancestors doing things not understanding why they're doing them but they happen to be beneficial things and so they keep doing them and that's a good thing and it improves over time but they're very low on the comprehension dimension which is the vertical dimension they are very high on bottom-up vs. top-down very little advance planning and they're much more random than directed search that is to say much more trial and error much less focusing in on likely solutions so we see up in the upper right hand corner we see intelligent design and I'm gonna put Picasso up in that corner not Bach why Picasso not because he's the most intelligent designer I can think of but because he said he was he once said Jinnah shesh passe reprove I don't search I find a brilliant boast false manifestly false in the case of Picasso he often did dozens or even hundreds of variations on it on a drawing before he decided which ones to put in the exhibit part of his genius was unlike natural selection he sold all the others too so this is an ideal of creative intelligence that even Picasso could not meet but it gives us the standard the eye Pitta me of the intelligent designer is somebody who is such a genius he doesn't have to mess around with grubby old trial and error he doesn't have to take chances or throw dice to get himself off he just bingo goes right to the summit the highest place in design space automatically he's that kind of genius nobody is or will be that's like a perpetual motion machine so much for Picasso I'm going to trade him in for somebody that I think there's a much better exemplar of an intelligent designer and that's Bach he really was exemplary he had deep comprehension of what he was doing he was highly constrained he had trial and error methods but they were remarkably efficient and he pruned them with all sorts of interesting strategies he was constrained by knowledge by comprehension by foresight that's shortened him in the in the breadth of search whether he had directed search he was magnificently equipped with thinking tools he knew music theory he had a vast knowledge of the history of music and he exploited it very effectively he was a model intelligent designer of music ever since culture started a long time ago the pace of our D in culture has accelerated why thanks to the accumulation of thinking tools once thinking tools begin to evolve and people begin to pile them into their heads and use them this has a recursive effect of speeding up intelligent design you've got more handy tools to use you can design things better and faster and more accurately and with more foresight and this was all created by the natural selection of memes I'm going to give you a lovely example of the pace of R&D this is a slide I have borrowed from my friend Matt Ridley on the left and actually in hand-axe those were made by our ancestors unwith out any discernible design change for about a million years on the other hand the mouse has only been around for a few decades nobody invented the Ashland hand ax Douglas Engelbart invented the mouse and it may be extinct in a few years that is an example of the change of pace now the cultural evolution has been in effect of D Darwin eyes becoming ever more intelligent ever left Darwinian ever less brute groping up the ramp ever more insightful in the way it proceeds and then there's all sorts of cases in the middle here's a nice one the philosopher Alan writing in 1908 about Griffin II fishing boats wrote every boat is copied from another boat let reason let's reason this follows in the manner of Darwin it is clear that a very badly made boat will end up on the bottom after one or two voyages and thus never be copied one could then say with complete rigor that it is the sea herself who fashions the boats choosing those which function and destroying the others the rule if it comes back copy it that's natural selection it does not depend on the insight or comprehension or intelligence of the boat builders all they have to do is air it is let's make another one and the sea will take care of quality control and that's a very clear example of the natural selection of cultural items I just want you to have it in your mind as an example of something which I am claiming in ubiquitous ubiquitous in human culture but now we're entering the age of intelligent design we're up in the upper right hand corner where design R&D is becoming faster and faster and more efficient cultural evolution is becoming ever more top-down ever more comprehending or self comprehending ever more refined in its search measurement methods and so is genetic evolution GM food craig Venter and the like well what next well the last chapter of my book is about what next the title after all is from bacteria to Bach and back so I want to talk very briefly before closing about the age of post intelligent design which we seem now to be entering in many fields intelligent designers are exploiting the truth of Oracle's second rule that evolution is cleverer than you are we have genetic algorithms deep learning reinforcement learning bayesian networks these are all fundamentally Darwinian processes their basic mechanical stupid differential replication processes which gradually eke out the answer you're looking for for a number of years I've been extolling and describing the work done by one such post intelligent design intelligent designer and that's Francis Arnold and I was overjoyed last week when she won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry what she does is evolves novel proteins in her lab she once said to me that her thesis supervisor said to wear when she was first starting this but Francis she wanted to make proteins that would you know turn the cardboard into gasoline and all sorts of wonderful transformations but Francis there are no proteins in nature that have these talents and her wonderful as it was that's because there hasn't been selection for it so she's using selection artificial selection to explore the vast space of possible proteins adding to the adding to the proteins that we already have machine learning is another good example I won't say much about it you know about Watson and Google Translate and many others and we seem to be entering and some people are worried about it and I think it's worth worrying about but you might call black box science we now have machines some of them Darwinian machines we know we can prove you put in the data if you turn them on and after a little while they give you the answer and it's provably reliable but you don't know how it got it and you just give up you don't bother trying to figure out how or why it's right you just made yourself an Oracle which you can use now this has created an interesting shift in the position of a famous intellectual Noam Chomsky for many years Noam Chomsky has made a distinction between problems and mysteries problems we can solve and he has a list of problems that we can or have solved and then there are mysteries and mysteries he declares are beyond human comprehension now and forever what's wrong why does that mean they're among the mysteries he declares our free will and consciousness well that's a little annoying to me having devoted most of my career to trying to solve these two mysteries but it's interesting that he declares them beyond human comprehension now and forever and he's been followed by others that are called mysterious the late Jerry Fodor call him again Tom Nagel this is the loyal opposition to much of what I've been doing for the last 50 years but now Chomsky has slightly changed his tune while there is a conceptual distinction between problems and mysteries he says we accept the best explanation science can give us even when we can't imagine how they work it doesn't matter what we can conceive anymore we've given up on that so I really want to close by asking this comprehension matter I think it matters do we want post comprehension science do we want to go to competence without comprehension do we want technological competence without comprehension or do we want DARPA explainable AI initiative which presumably will allow us to explain the competences that the AIS that we make in the future have should we try to make persons out of those AOS I don't think so on the pro side if we do then they can explain their reasoning to us if we do it right so we can develop their own but then so they can develop their own imaginative curiosity and epistemic goals I'm not sure you want to do that Khan they will blur the lines of moral responsibility I want to suggest now I'm going to be practical for just a minute legal innovations that might protect us in this dangerous age maybe you should license users of these AIS we should have bonded users with strict liability laws so that if they make a recommendation or adopt a policy that turns out very badly because they trusted a machine when they shouldn't have trusted the Machine they are personally responsible they'll have to have giant insurance policies and the insurance companies will make sure that the tools that they use are as transparent as possible so that the users will not be buffaloed and will understand completely the limitations of the tools for protection I anticipate a sort of reverse touring test do you want to use this machine the machine will now quiz you and if you can't pass the test if you can't see where the flaws where the gaps the lacuna czar in this machine's comprehension you don't get to use the machine you don't get your license to use the machine it's just an idea makers would have the incentive to advertise the flaws gaps and weaknesses of their own systems as I say a sort of reverse touring test I'll end on this note some years ago I with a colleague created something called the curricular software studio where our goal was to use computers to enhance comprehension and our metaphor was look there's two kinds of empowerment as the bulldozer kind and the Nautilus machine kind to technologies the bulldozer allows you to move mountains but you come might still be a 98-pound weakling the Nautilus machine builds up your own personal strength so I want to make nautilus machines AIS and our Nautilus machines for the mind tools not colleagues the intelligent design is the current phase of the evolution of Homo sapiens if we understand how we got here we have a better chance of enjoying the future thanks very much for your attention that was a very inspiring call and I would like to invite you to have a seat and I think we all agree that's very impressive to see how all the pieces of Daniel Dennett's earlier work come together here and it's my privilege to ask Daniel Dennett a couple of questions and after that the floor is open to questions from you and I'd like to start with a question about dichotomies because in your book you discuss several dichotomies or phenomena that seem binary to us so for instance the transition from consciousness to or from unconsciousness to consciousness the emergence of life you discussed the transition from competences to competence with comprehension and I wonder why this phenomena that seems so black-and-white to us still yeah why do you think they do you think they are gradual but why do they seem so binary to us well consider night and day binary as different is day and night alright when exactly does day start and when exactly does a night start there's a obviously a dusk period a twilight period and what seems sort of digitized in the two states is better seen for many purposes as involving a gradual transition which we understand perfectly ever since Ernst Meier we've been thinking in biology about population thinking and realizing that species the line between species is not black and white there's a gradual transition the reason we see these is sort of black and white for instance birds and dinosaurs is because the intervening the Twilight zones have all gone extinct if the twilight zone still were around we would have a real problem we'd have a we'd have a practical problem where to draw the line but since all of those intermediate cases aren't there it's easy to draw the line and that's I think a very general lesson is and up to a philosopher the question the the the policy is nothing of any real interest has an essence don't look for sharp dividing lines don't look for necessary and sufficient conditions for anything not for being a cow not for being conscious not for having free will there's all sorts of gradations that doesn't mean there aren't sharp differences between having it and not having it but in between there all the penumbral cases all right that's clear and I would like to to raise another issue like that cotta meets because as I said throughout the book you argue that a lot of apparent dichotomies are actually gradual but there's one thank you adhere to and that's the dichotomy between the manifest and the scientific image and I should maybe explain this a little bit because you didn't discuss it this time last time then you're gonna did so the manifest image is how the world around us looks to us with the things that we all recognize like money and words and free will and the scientific image is scientific image so that's why we're we have DNA and atoms and things like now I think as far as I know there are a couple of philosophers of science who would say well actually the scientific images also invent that are the things in the scientific image are also invented or interpreted by human beings so why do you go clear this dichotomy the idea goes back to the philosopher Wilfrid Sellars and what struck him is the important question is as he put it how things in the broadest sense of the term hang together in the broadest sense of the term what's the relationship between euros baseball games colours free will on the one hand and atoms molecules quarks protons electrons on the other they seem it's not easy these abstract things particularly the ones I mentioned they they're perfectly real and important in our daily life they're not fictions or if they are they're usable user-friendly fictions that we need euros for example are they real if you don't have any they're real now is there a sharp dichotomy between the manifest image and the scientific image no and look the manifest image is the world of common sense but today my four-year-old granddaughter has electricity as part of the manifests image Ben Franklin didn't much of common sense is sort of the fossil traces of earlier science which have become so incorporated into our everyday life then it becomes familiar and we don't have any trouble with the idea of thinking in those terms when we add casual everyday thinking the sort of thinking that you don't have to learn in school that's the manifest image and it now includes a lot of things which not only used to be in the scientific image only but not so long ago weren't even in the scientific image and so there are many examples of borderline cases is that part of the scientific image or part of the manifest image and we shouldn't waste our time adjusting the definition so that we rule out all the loans that are intuitively one or or not the other it's a it's a striking dichotomy with fuzzy edges all right so sir then any dichotomy I thought I had found one yes oh yes I'll give you a dichotomy there's irrational numbers and rational numbers Susy odd numbers and even numbers there's nothing that's a little bit odd a little bit even mathematics is the home of dichotomies and one of the problems with philosophy is it mathematics is for many philosophers the the paradigm of knowledge and if they could just turn all knowledge into geometry with Euclidian proofs I'd be so happy but a lot of the proofs that you can do in geometry or in number theory or just you know proving that your sums are right the proofs ill fit the rest of the world the concrete world for instance you can't there's a lot of sort of fish or cut bait on arguments which work beautifully in mathematics that don't work in other realms because there are always the fuzzy cases in the middle okay thank you and my next question relates to this so one of the key foundations of your work is the meaning of the world word real and many people get confused by this which I understand experts and non-experts alike because Daniel Dennett uses phrases like consciousness is a perfectly real illusion so now we're all here and I would like to ask you four to make it clear for all of these people that are here that they go home tonight and now they really know what you mean with the word real what is your best example to illustrate what's according to you the meaning of the word real something's real if your ability to distinguish it and track it would permit you I'll put this very crassly you could bet make money on it which is which is not trivial it means that that there's a pattern there's that there's there's a probability you it's not random it's there's a real pattern in any sequence where you can compress it that's the definition I relied on in the paper real patterns and I think it works really really very well but but the trouble is and this is dogged me in recent years for a long time in fact is that the phenomena that I study mostly consciousness and free will our both such that for a lot of people real consciousness or real free will means something sort of magical and and the magician lee siegel wrote a wonderful book about street magic and he tells his friends who's writing a book on magic and they say real magic by which they mean vomiter Jekyll acts and sorcery and sober he says no conjuring tricks sleight of hand that kind of stage magic and then he goes on to say something wonderfully says in other words real magic is the kind of magic that isn't real the kind of magic you're going to actually do is not real magic and I think we you can appreciate that that's one sense of the term real applied something right met it well for a lot of people both consciousness and freewill don't exist in the real magic and so I try to say no they're perfectly real they just aren't what you think they are so I'm constantly in the sort of forlorn position and I know a lot of people don't like magic tricks explain to them block my ears don't tell me I don't want to know how it's done unfortunately I want to explain all those magic tricks and a lot of people that makes me a sort of a downer you know a party-pooper okay now I hope it's clear for me my next question is about the intuitions that you try to fight so throughout your book and also in other books you discuss a lot of you or you you encounter a lot of resistance like you said response to my last my last question because people yeah because your ideas are novel of course oh maybe they are hard to crush but also because we to fully understand them we have to let go of some very strong intuitions and I wonder whether you may be asking too much of us so are these strong intuitions may be comparable to hard wired visual illusions like maybe you remember the famous black and blue dress right so you cannot help but seeing it in a certain way so in other words is it actually possible for us to take this different perspective that you are pressing and if not what will happen if we good question thank you yelling in the worst case we might not be able to shed our intuition but at least we could understand that that was our predicament that I can't stop believing this but I can sort of slap myself on the wrist and say bad boys this is this you shouldn't trust this you don't have any good reason for trusting this and I think I think you know that's the case for a lot of people when they think about say quantum physics and some of its just impenetrably cognitively cognitively impenetrably counterintuitive and they just give up shedding their intuitions and you know trust the math and grit their teeth my colleague friend opponent David Chalmers famously disagrees with me about consciousness and I've argued with him for you know more than a decade two decades and one time he just said to me Dan I know your arguments I don't have good answers to your arguments but I just can't give up my intuition that you're wrong and I said well David have you considered a change in diet if he didn't take that well but but I submit he should have taken it seriously if he was if he wasn't confessing that he simply was unable to suspend the belief that I had given him reasons to suspend then he's got a he's got a little glitch in his mind and who knows I can't argue him out of it maybe you know maybe if I played some music for him or you know dropped him on his head or something that would make a difference all right and what so but what do you think what you're feeling about it whether you're going to succeed or not or I don't I don't know but I'll give you one more reason for at least trying to take me seriously consciousness let's just stick with that one for a moment it's been precious little serious progress on that and the last fifty years let's just say I submit that if there were an intuitive solution we would have had it long ago there's bound to be something that just about everybody pounds their fists on the table says that's just got to be true and they're wrong sometimes what you should do when you are faced with a an impasse in thinking in science and philosophy is ask yourself is there some fixed point some assumption that nobody has thought of denying can we just try denying it and see what happens if you don't try then this is sort of an imaginative blockade so one of the good things about philosophy is it's these these trials are cheap and harmless that's why so much of philosophy really doesn't bear much looking at because it's a lot of it's pretty silly but there's a point to it we explore you know in the safety of our own offices and classrooms I wild outlandish ideas that are deeply counterintuitive who knows maybe we'll we'll find the the intuition that everybody should should vanish and if you look at the history of science I think we see many cases where that's really what happened ok so there's hope there's hope yeah related to this I was wondering whether you meet different types of resistance in in different countries because now you told us you were in Australia no you're here you're going to Barcelona so are you what are the strongest intuitions when you were American readers I don't know I don't think I see any regional differences all right I think I think there are a lot of people that read myself and they just get it they say yeah right finally somebody said what I sort of almost thought and I'm very happy with that yeah and then there's other people that just think this just can't be right and the real problem sometimes with those people is they don't just think it can't be right but it shouldn't be right it's there's a moral dimension to this they're afraid that if they were to concede that something dreadful would happen and I think on freewill that's a big issue I've often what walked through a long discussion with a neuroscientist about how to think about consciousness and decision and so forth and they hear me out on my ruthlessly materialistic and and compatible istic theory and at the end they say but what about free will I mentioned free will but you can tell that in the back of their mind there's a hidden agenda I can't let my theory go in that direction because that would jeopardize free will and that would mean that life had no meaning and that would mean the end of the world and that's I think a failure of imagination on their part but a very common one right my last question for now and then the floor is open to you is a question about evolution so how do you think we will look back at this debate about how to mind evils in hundred years from now you will probably not be there anymore so maybe me neither don't know about you I've never thought of that I don't know I know what I hope I hope it will look almost comic and people would say look at this look at the contortions he had to go through to try to get people to see that this is the right way to think about it that's if I'm right of course

Anger and Forgiveness | Lecture by philosopher Martha Nussbaum



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Anger and Forgiveness Lecture by philosopher Martha Nussbaum Monday 12 December 2016 | 19.30 – 21.00 hrs. | Collegezalencomplex, Mercatorpad 1 …

Winger Marketing President Karolyn Raphael Lectures at Roosevelt University



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Winger Marketing President Karolyn Raphael speaks with marketing students at Roosevelt University.

technology so on the way here tonight I have into the cab and the cab driver said where you going what are you doing is there long topical marketing clinics on it that's so cool how would you describe marketing you know keeps you continue to be like a four sentences what's marketing a simple marketing it's the soul of the business it really is what people walk away with when they encounter your brand when they encounter your product it's that life blood that likes you up so how many of you here use a PC ok how many of you use a mac okay I know who said that ok so usually there's there's a little bit I've usually at a university we got more math than PC but um you know what why why would you buy a mac pc costs third the amount of a man why do you buy a mac the name why else design anybody else okay that's very very functional and it sort of logical approach to a purchasing decision but most people talked about either what it made you feel like and then what was the first thing that was said was it you said to sign the name the name right and those are the those are things that produce what inside of you yeah just a feeling they make you feel something so so people will spend three times more on a mac than on a PC because people who are mac fans are raving fans most people who buy Mac products they have an iphone there into the iPad they're totally loyal to that and that is val marketing and that is soul of that organization so here's another example what's the best hamburger you've ever had from from cabbage key for cabbage p okay anyone else best restaurant best hamburger I've ever had okay yes coo coo coo bazar kumail's which plant g okay damn k okay yeah that's great so how many to find you by culvers as you collect well-versed but okay so how many of those are multi-billion dollar companies does anybody ever had a hamburger from mcdonalds yeah so don't like Donald's make the best hamburger but what do they do the best real estate today which is which is probably part of a really big indigenous strategy but but they did something before they had all this real estate what do they do they marketed their Brad that create and figured out how to turn this hamburger into a widget and make it into something that could be mass-produced and scaled and they marketed it and they convinced everybody that they were serving all of these people with their wonderful hamburgers and we all know they're not the best hamburgers but you know exactly what you're going to get when you walk in so I like to give that example the the mac and mcdonalds because these are these are mega brands right these are mega marketers they are huge percentages of market share and if you think about what's happened with blackberry remember how everybody had had a blackberry we do what's happened to them does anybody know I mean they can't even sell their business so many watts it they're trying to roll out a global platform and you know they think they literally had to withdraw the whole gonna get a Rio song see that again they don't get bought out soon oh I think they withdrew it they did they took the whole thing off the table they're not going to sell their their business because I ending they realize does the kid can't sell it for what they wanted to do to make money well they're big domain was business the business because I don't yeah Yeah Yeah right yeah but so so but this is great example of companies that over time it's not just when you think about marketing this is there's a strategic level there's a tactical level and then there's a value a perception about what they are what they do can anyone think of a company that's been able to really sort of Wharf what they've done and taking it to a new level to accommodate the new kind of audience so you know let's kind of roll roll the dial back here unfortunately this is another example of a company didn't do it but what about Sears Sears Roebuck and Company that was a household name how many of you remember my LG John but waiting for that Sears catalog to arrive male my grandpa grandpa and it was a big deal I went through with the marker and I circled that rag doll I want if you're Smith I mean I waited every year for that so what happened to them Walmart Walmart so did sears change know what changed Walmart competition the industry the market the market so does anyone have any ideas what Sears maybe would have done to secure their your place as the leader in being that ever mighty resource for washers inspires toys and clothes almost anything you wanted anyone have any ideas do you think they got comfortable there you go I mean that's really it's very simple but a very brilliant answer and that's why when you see companies who are changing and companies who are bringing people from other industries in if you think about burberry has anyone been to the new burberry store on Michigan Avenue I walk event because you walk past it has anyone got in and kind of shopping a Gasper I mean so so that woman who grew up in Indiana really kind of a rags-to-riches story she's now over an apple why what is she what does she have that companies like sears roebuck but it benefited from my innovation innovation so if you want to be a successful marketer there are a lot of recipes for marketing in fact I would tell you that our firm we don't we don't specialize in one area with a lot of clients in health care we have a lot of clients in the art world your lot of clients real estate with a lot of clients that not world and you know we've been in business for almost 30 years we could have gotten very comfortable we even have clients was still that we had 30 years ago we still have them how do you keep them you have to innovate and you have to change with the market and if there's if there's one piece of information that I can share with you tonight about taking a job in marketing working in a creative arena or working in a business and what your contribution could be to that business is to be an innovator you gotta have your ear to the ground gottfried kind of follow the trends you know what is happening so that you can come to work and bring ideas I know that as an employer when I'm interviewing somebody I want to hear what their thoughts are on on issues on this is on I want to hear about projects they've done where they've really made a difference with their thoughts and if you can if you can figure out a way to demonstrate that you are a good finger that you're good problem solver that you can also follow through with your ideas it's really all you need to be successful in this world thing especially in mark thing you have to be able to shift have to be able to put different hats on you have to be able to innovate and that is why a company like Apple was plotting along and had their market share with schools having apple computers and then they brought Steve Jobs back and what did Steve do he challenged them all to be innovators he challenged them all to solve problems and suddenly the company had a new face the company had a whole new energy to it and you know they haven't been quite as innovative lately sure we've gotten you have a mini that came out the ipad but what's what's next I mean isn't everyone sort of waiting to see what what Apple is going to do next maybe ipod that was that was amazing that was a game changer so those are the kinds of things that are brought to the table marketing rain and it is something if you develop what was your question no I was going to ask do you think they thought about it long term because in terms of their still like the dominate in terms of like the market but I think a lot of the revenue they generate and the reason why they hold a lot of people is because of like that at market and that fluid is really where was like their physical software some terms of like marketing what would you recommend in terms of like short term and long term fee that's a great question and I think that's something that Michelle and I see all of the time we'll get a phone call from a business a local business and they'll say we're really need marketing help it really needs some PR can you get me in the news sure sure we can get you in the news that rye bread and butter if you know how to pick up the phone and pitch a story and have a reporter interview you share your story with them and get you some nice publicity but um but what's the goal of having a story in the newspaper well I want more sales I think where people coming in my store now say okay okay well um so there's a sense of urgency in your voice and having a PR strategy is not going to be the way to get people in the door tomorrow so getting an article in the paper that talks about all of the great philanthropy you've done in the commune me for 12 years it's not going to translate two bodies in the door so I think every business needs to have that short-term strategy because you need sales to be viable but you do need a long-term strategy and that's where skills like public relations come into play and it's a difficult one because everybody is renting right now everybody wants to know what's my return on investment and marketing has gone from an expense to something that we have to show up improve our value every time somebody wants to talk to the marketing department well what was the return on investment with that ad buy we did with the Chicago Tribune no he's wondering I don't know did it ring yeah so there's a lot of trying to figure out where do these people come from and the trick is that we've done all kinds of market surveys where we ask people how to hear about us and they'll say well you know I saw domination that is so funny but they have no idea because they saw it may be on channel 2 news and they happen to be flipping and then they saw something in a newspaper that they happen to have open and then they saw a banner ad and then they got remarketed and they were tracked all over the internet everywhere they went they saw an ad for this cupcake so all of those pieces have to work together and so I think the fact that you're thinking like that sort of this long term strategy versus immediate you know what what is the push-pull right this is this is actually an opportunity for marketing professionals to come to the table not as an expense but really in sort of that c-suite level right people talk about the the CEO to COO and CFO and you know that marketing person sometimes we get invited to the table sometimes we don't and we hear about it after they say oh yeah by the way we signed an agreement with mayo clinic what if we have known that you were doing this we could put this in our short-term advertising program with this in our long-term funding program so thinking like strategist thinking about what's a business need to be productive or the business need to be profitable those are all the questions you have to ask yourself before you come up with a great marketing campaign so what should i do before I market and you can do research I've done a lot of research with various companies and I think sometimes people find you know companies find that it essentially reiterates what they thought was happening or it affirms what they thought was happening in the marketplace rarely have I seen whoa we didn't know that it was a 70 year old woman that was buying every you know item on the shelf over here rarely does that happen so while you can have that kind of research to understand what's happening you also need to have insight into the things you need to do before you market so it can become a little esoteric but you have to think long term short term from always did I answer your question yeah I'm sorry I gave him later no knowledge okay it's okay and I brought I have a little prezzie that I can kind of flip through just to give you all sort of an overview of our company I didn't give you any background on myself so I'm gonna have a get through a sort of like launched into this I'm Carolyn Raphael I went to Indiana University and I studied fear and I also studied telecommunications and I was the producer of the Indiana University radio news line and I thought I was a really cool journalist and i graduated i moved to Chicago I got into a theater company I made twelve thousand dollars a year and after about two years of that I said I think it's ready to use that telecommunications degree and I got a job at the time that that was part of the advertising department so I got a job at an ad agency and luckily I got a scientist big accounts i got assigned to dominos pizza sir speedy printing something hoping its formal wear which no longer exists so may or may not remember it probably renting tuxedos from them as little pulse would ring bearers and in flames and certain sir speedy printing in roto-rooter so so you know got some good experience dealing with all kinds of personalities finding out about negotiating finding out of that communicating and then I moved into public relations wanted something that was a little less about numbers a little more creative so I got into public relations I got a job at winger was winger and associates started in nineteen eighty-four and do I just click I'm 10 you to the laptop laptop okay um and so I started there as an account executive I was Michelle and I I was Michelle for I think five years 36 years and I got promoted to vice president at the company and I'm in a few years into that the owners came to me and said listen we're either going to close the business sell it or we're going to retire and like let you take out the business so I said yeah I'm ready I'm ready I'm going to take on this business but at the time there was no social media we had a dial-up in the office and we would yell from office to office are you online can I send an email so by the time I took over this company the whole world had changed social media was relevant we needed a website and I decided we were no longer going to be when you're an associate's because we're not a law firm we're a marketing company and so we chose this this new this new name and and really the thing that's been different about our firm the thing that has stood out there are a lot of PR firms there are a lot of digital marketing firms there are a lot of direct marketing firms we're an integrated marketing company and what that means is we create custom marketing recipes for all of our clients what works for one may work for another but it won't work for all of them and in our experience if we choose one thing if this person who calls me and says I want to be in the news they hire us and they say okay where's my news stories we get them for them but there's no result on the end because that's not really what they needed they need is a via direct email campaign maybe they needed to have some offense at your store get their name out to the community through a little more mixing and mingling we're not going to do the one thing the client wants us to do without looking at all the pieces that they need to do and because the marketplace has become so diverse and so chopped up you can't just do one thing you can't buy advertising and that's it you can't do PR an effin you can't just do social media you have to do a little bit of everything to reach the various demographics that you need to communicate with so we create these custom recipes we're actually ventually 29 years almost 30 years in business I am a certified woman-owned business which essentially means we have that little credit if a company need because the other some laws that big companies have to follow they have to get a certain amount of their their business to certified women and minority-owned companies so we've got that and they've won a lot of awards with offices in Chicago and in Highland Park and we also partner with some firms in New York City San Francisco and Washington DC so we're not quite location agnostic but we have moved all of our work into the cloud so that we can be anywhere and service anyone we actually are working with clients internationally we have several international clients and i'm proud to say they found us food through the web so even though our roots have been here locally we've been able to to branch out so i'll just kind of whip through this and then i really want to hear from you guys and just you know answer questions about things you're learning and how you know I can advice for your careers and things you're interested in um you know in thinking about what we do and in talking about marketing I didn't really feel like that described well our mission our mission is not to market companies our mission is really to connect businesses to customers by sharing their story so this is something that you know I think all of you when you're working with companies find out what the mission of the company is make sure that you can be aligned with it and that you believe in it because it's going to be much easier to work at a job like that if you understand what you're what you're rolling up your sleeves to do every day next one so we tried to come up with what is the winger way right what are the things that we do that nobody else does if you went and hired the agency down the street and you knew that we're going to get a few things for you done but you didn't know how they did it or what they believed it so we've really come up with a way that we approach every question every issue that comes up in our office is Michelle smiling in the back because we do this on on Monday mornings we all get together and we have i have written on the whiteboard some of these questions but we have a whole process that we go through to talk through our issues on various clients and even with each other but so what are the goals this is really the number one question if you can't answer what is the goal of the second tivity or what does the goal of client don't do it what are the obstacles identify them and eliminate them how can marketing make an impact if you're just marketing to mark it don't do it don't do it will just create action will this create awareness will dis improve outcomes these are the questions we ask ourselves before we take on any activity for a coin and then your job communicate share broadcast and the port so these are the things that that really help distinguish you are as a company when your advantage so again why do I want to choose you know when you're marketing or small agency but we get big agency outcomes we've had clients on the conan o'brien show we've had clients do crazy stunts putting 12-foot condoms over all of the pylons up and down halsted this is not something you would typically see coming out of a small agency but we convinced him to do it they did it we had it was many years ago a great awareness campaign for kind of awareness day so long term client retention I mentioned we have clients that's been with us for 30 years we are not a revolving door and we do we service clients in a lot of different areas we don't just real estate it up just to heart we do a lot so this really just want to get into sort of the overview of our services and really what I what I tried to outline care for you are the poor right we partner with a lot of different agencies we partner with a lot of different folks I don't have a graphic artist in has my outsource that I have somebody that we work with and I'm just going to be great for certain number of clients but then there might be other clients where I know they're they're not going to like each other so we have to have sort of a bucket of contractors that we use for videos for photography for graphics and that's really the way to be economical for for clients but public relations has been our bread and butter media by this is something that we do pipe it up for small clients and for large clients and this is where we really start to have fun with not just calling up ABC and saying hey I need a bank of 30-second spots now we're going to come up with a way to make those 30-second spots have a real impact your audience so if you're telling me that you need people who are passionate about sports and who most of your customers watch the bears game let's come up with an opossum campaign and get your name integrated into the programming during Bears games let's not just buy some very second spot let's let's make this an experience for your brand and for your potential clients patients whatever resources and partners i mentioned how we do market research video production creative direction branding web design SEO these are things we've done for all of a lot of our clients and again we partner with experts in those areas to make sure that we're really doing the very best job we can for our clients and then finally content development I think this has really become the the piece of marketing the puzzle that has been driven both by searchability and by this this notion of becoming a thought leader right how many of you have heard that I want to be a thought leader how many of you are thought leaders all right tell me what your thought leading about yeah what if were seriously what do you thought they can I mean I feel like I'm thought leading in the marketing club okay help us grow our attention in the University have a blog on marketing okay that's right my latest my latest one was called I think make it share which had to do with how to make things in such a way that they would go viral okay which is which is what you know used to be people would call you and say can you get me on Oprah now there's column a steak can you get me a viral video this is what everybody wants they just you know it's like that that moment of fame what I'm gonna have to read that put a kit kat yes if you put a kitten in a video it actually scores higher and what are you putting on us about leaving on my artistic expression so finally what all you know how to just a manifest ideas into just kind of be creative so I've been talking to it's are you writing a blog on it are you for you they just a phrase your visibility or your personal brand your Ellis or so just trying to develop some equipment to be able to do that okay okay that's great I bring that up because all of all of these terms that you'll hear thought their personal brand content if these are sort of the tip of the tongue of anybody who has a marketing position right now because these are the pieces that they're struggling with because they take a lot of time because they're expensive to produce and there's a slew of tools that have come out on the market so that I don't really have to know how to write I can hire somebody to one set a word write this for me I mean it's going to happen with video too so people are always trying to innovate come up with ways to make this job easier and I just you know I always wash in my clients they're really hard to make arrangements if you really want to do you really want to do a good job at marketing you have to be authentic and so we're going to go through we're going to test some of these products and we're going to see if we can find the folks on those platforms that are authentic because I don't want to dismiss them maybe is that these are writers who are looking for jobs these are people who could be very talented but we have we have really put a lot of pressure on businesses to produce results and the struggle becomes understand me to return on investment so this is going to be something that I think all of you you know studying right now and being in a place where this economy is starting to ramp back up a real opportunity to kind of keep your eye on and figure out how that's going to impact the work that you're going to be doing in a future so so this is it this is a really big deal in terms of marketing the next piece just little overviews with our clients that we work with education real estate nonprofits special defense you know we try to keep it interesting and that's really what I will tell you that the benefit of working at a lot of different kinds of businesses that you can take one business and you can introduce them to somebody in this other business and you can kind of marry them up and you can come up with programs and it really kind of opens up the opportunities for the companies that you're serving we do through our media partnerships that are in our media buying we do a lot of those sponsorships and promotions so you know like I said we work with media companies basically globally and that's that's the fun part so you know I one day I realized I really liked going to television shoes I had a lot of money with my clients and everybody was really happy when they were on the set and then and then when the cyclic a mountain client was all excited I can do that all I have to do is come up with an idea of my client get on the phone and pigeon I think we at a radio station or a TV station every day so I think you have to really kind of all the authority of the power that you bring to the table for companies when you discover that you're really good at something and you can just see how it would impact not just you with the business and everybody else that it has that trickle effect you can really get excited about things and really make a difference so that's that's really about us we do have an internship program and we are accepting applications so if anybody is interested please send me an email tell me why we should have you as an intern this summer or the spring and what you want to learn because I really I feel like if I had had the opportunity when I was as fortunate as you all are too a city school where you really have professionals to talk to I think you know the struggles that you go through 20 is trying to figure out what to do and where to work if you have no network and it would have been amazing so really I you are all so lucky to be here at this university and have access to real life professionals to talk to and help guide you so putting that out there because we would love to have a student from this club at our office what questions do you have for me what can I what can I answer so we deal with clients of your idea process where were you where are you do you have like a like a initial place to go for like ideas or do you have like a certain way that you try to develop these things or is it just too yeah it's a great question I think that everybody has their own way of tapping into that creative arena that creative sort of that link that you get to the you know those ideas that are out there and they whom they hit you because you're open to it and we actually have a rule in our office that shower rules shower shower thoughts must be shared so and I'm saying it wrong Michelle do you remember what though okay look so so our Vice President that at the firm she would she would come into the Monday meeting until I had I had a great idea of it yeah it's a shower idea and and so I said all shower ideas must be shared so so that is something that you know I know you know you're you're getting ready in the morning you space out and recite to you have comments to you so that happens so share those ideas write them down I use my iphone my video on my my audio recorder all the time my staff laughs at me because I will be driving and I just discovered Siri and I will talk to it now say Siri taken up and I will give my idea and I'll email it to them would you please drive would you stop talking to your phone mm-hmm because it's just you getting that you know you're driving along you're in that sort of default mode right your brain is in you know how to drive a car you know how to navigate where you're going you open up so I would say that that actually is a trick if you can do something where you three or four your body and your your muscles and your mind can go into sort of like a default mode for yourself maybe it's knitting maybe it's jogging maybe it's driving a car maybe it's I don't know taking a shower or whatever it might be that's what those ideas and I think the other thing is you have to read I have to read and you have to look at what everyone else is doing cannot do I marketing okay I'm marketing doesn't really work it has to be sort of the universe right maybe you can create a product that would be I market somebody already has that domain to but but yeah I think I think creativity think about where you get those ideas and then try to cultivate that as part of your regular activities and you have to take time to do it have any of you read The seven Habits of Highly successful people Stephen coming okay i'm really new friend so i recommend all of you read that book please read that book and here's what i would say they have a phrase in the book called sharpening the saw seven steps seven steps to highly successful several men seven habits of 7 habits of highly successful people stephen puppy so so there's a story in the book where there's a man and he's trying to cut down a tree and he's got this saw he's going on a tree and he's going and he's going to come I got to get this tree cut down and he's he keeps sawing and this other guy walks up to me as you know you might wanna urban that saw said I don't have time I got to get this tweet out I gotta keep I got to sign and and so the idea is how much faster could he get that tree down if he stopped and sharpen the saw so that's me he says it better than I do but that spoke so loudly because we all get into this mode and as a student you do and as a professional you do when you're working and you're working and you're working here on that treadmill and you've got your rhythm going and all of a sudden we realize I haven't eaten oh man I'm hungry but I gotta keep going right anything you keep going don't do that you would have to stop and nourish yourself or sharpen the saw or go to that lecture or go to that class whatever it might be so that that is a book i would put on your reading list for sure your lots of insight so i know that you said that you now source a lot of salad the total branding like that how large is the compass we have six employees on our payroll and everyone else is a contractor so I have three contractors that work with on a regular basis so there's a look at team of nine and and then we'll bring in a video partner a graphic design partner and it really just depends on the size of the project we've also been hired by other agencies so they may need a woman-owned business status and so they hire us to do a certain piece of that job and i will tell you that i am not in the majority of small marketing firms that actually have employees most of the firm's that I connect with everyone is a contractor and and I think you know there's some dangers in that certainly for for a company and I think for for business that you're working with so it's it's going to be really interesting again to see how things shake out I think a lot of that has to do with offering benefits if you can offer benefits you got to have employees if you don't want to offer benefits and have you know spin the size of the company and just you know do 1099s to pay health insurance so i don't believe in that i believe if you're going to work from my company work with our team I want you to be on staff and we're going to give you insurance and we're going to take care of you as a part our family but i did say it's something that every year we look at me saying how maybe we should be doing more to m99 it's a really hard hard piece to look at the small business for profitability any other questions another one a lot from the thought leader so what's the best advice if you receive or what what's the best advice you can give us as students it probably sounds a little cliche but I think the best advice I can give you is right when you go on an interview not an email man thank you note said they real thank you you know I think that maybe that sounds very simple you were hoping for something very light shadows Christian I thank you you know something you know follow your dream do what you're passionate about I think everybody knows that you know you wouldn't be here if you if you really had no idea what you wanted to do but i think it's the simple things that get overlooked go out and talk to people don't just have any social network online have a real network have real connections with people and my goodness send a real thank you note you will you will get a job because you set a reel thank you note i can tell you how many times will introduce somebody who's mediocre but if they sent to thank you know I'm like maybe we should have him back brigham vent because that that's something so i also want to share the best advice that Carolyn who gave me and it's so simple it was slow down I think everyone in our generation kind of has that problem where we're running from one thing to next were taking a million classes we're involved in a million things are always talking to someone on the phone and rereading that paragraph one last time just take that extra five minutes to go back and slow down it will change your world and I still get told it all the time it's been really hard we need to slow down so I feel like I've million things to do in your basket is dominate so honey how do you go into that light that tortoise mode when you're running next to the hair right and what you need to do it you need just to take that extra five minutes and slow down and reread and like we've gotten thank you notes of people and there's like words are there not misspelled they're just the wrong words they're taking too fast if you rewrite what you're saying read it out loud but made a world of difference so I live a process for that hope we have a proofing process in the office because it really you know we are we're moving so fast everybody has to read what they're writing out loud to another person not just you know Peyton who's this read it out loud to another person and then you can have somebody proof it but that's a great one and crow them slow down write a thank you note and you made me think of something else come back to it all right more so how important is direct marketing or social media I think it depends on the industry there's a lot of data about email marketing being actually the most successful way to market where people will take action right so used to have to basically by a bank of ads and you can run the ad four times and somebody will decide to go buy a bottle of tylenol and now that number keeps growing right maybe it's up to hate maybes 9 it just depends I know everyone's in boxes are flooded and people delete delete delete the email but the data still says that email is one of the most effective ways to get to take action more there's our people with other majors here so yeah HR okay thank you would you recommend them taking an internship or a position and a marketing firm in order to to ride I think it's a great opportunity if you can find an internship that gives you an opportunity to learn about a lot of different businesses and how business works right you understand how the business works that you're gonna be able to market then you're going to be able to do HR you'll do it's really it's a business education that you're looking for it during an internship tactics you can learn you know but if you don't have that basic strategic understanding of the business world that's really matter everyone everything else can be learned right internation it actually evolved through an event that we started marketing when they came to Chicago was the International vintage poster fair and you know they were clients there from Paris and Luxembourg and I mean just all over the world and eventually their association hired us to take on the association and and now more recently organically it's just been through the internet we were contacted by a company in Denmark we're also recently hired by a company in order to apply so and actually has been a great working experience because they send us their questions and their emails and they send it while we're sleeping so we get to the office and we have all this you know work from them and we answer it and we go to sleep and then we come back so it's actually there's been a nice sort of back and forth because of the time lag and I know people talk about it so hard how do you how do you get after them but I think it actually is very beneficial so and we've had to do a lot of Education about the ideas that might be working in India are not necessarily going to work no idea why we would want to do a charitable outreach campaign I we're trying to sell flowers why we want the charity and the idea of corporate responsibility it hasn't even entered the realm of discussion in it some of these businesses communities other parts of the world so it's very very interesting and so we get to make a difference their feet just kind of like pop and on that that's more of like a qualitative thing does you like like social media nowadays and like it's just there's like so much like data just being thrown out there right like how do you I guess I put like a quantitative like value on something that's more selective so give me an example of what what you would be looking for I guess like with things like social media marketing how does that like like influence or how much like you would you guys like charge for that like to apply okay so in terms of social media marketing um it depends on what what we're doing so I think the biggest mistake companies have is to say I need facebook and we talked and got it up why do you need facebook we had a client who said was hey we want to be on Pinterest that's great but you don't have any photos but so you know really we came back there why you want to be a Pinterest what's not going to do for the business and you know what I understand you want to expand and social media but you know where you really ought to expand linkedin you're a b2b you need to be talking to these clients and you have no photos so I think you know again this becomes really complicated you can go online and you can look at what does the marketing firm charge for social media management and there are firms I don't know what software they are running but they are posting will guarantee you links and posts on 12 different platforms for you know three hundred dollars a month updated daily how are they doing that and not only how are they doing that but what is that doing for them is anybody reading what people are posting is anybody responding to them so and that goes back to that qualitative right do I just need like to put stuff out there and if that's the case I would question your strategy or do I need to be having meaningful dialogue with people who I want to become my customers and then that case social media very important and in when lens CEO says well what's the return on investment I'll say well how about if we look at it a little differently maybe we got a couple of leads from your facebook but how much money did you save this year in legal fees because you were able to take a disgruntled customer social media offline by the conversation and resolve an issue before I got escalated so I think there's a lot of value that can be achieved through social media but again it all goes back to that meaningful dialogue about land and about identity and loyalty there are people who say marketing is dead there will no longer be marketing departments when you graduate they are all going to be engagement departments we're no longer going to have a CEO of marketing or a head of marketing you need a head of engagement that Walt Disney try to do this they took they took their marketing department may be renamed it synergy I work in the Department of synergy I don't think it really caught on but it was very cool because I haven't I kind of got what they were doing you know it just sort of oh yeah that's great because they knew that they were taking their product and they were marrying it to all these other groups and they were making an impact wasn't marketing his synergy so then I answer your question yes you said it perfectly good weighing it's like they always like oh what's our paternal yes that I mean that is very important as well but right and we have some we have some luxury clients who would say you know what a great lead from facebook that they built it's really powerful with us which is awesome but how many customers were they able to engage where they built their house but now they also signed up for maintenance program and they're going to spend X number of dollars every year after that house was built because they liked the attention and the quality that they feel what they feel when they are engaging with that business and people want to feel that we're not not ever done thank you okay well thanks for having me

How to Deal with Misery? | Lecture by philosopher Tomáš Halík



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How to Deal with Misery? | Lecture by philosopher Tomáš Halík
Tuesday 5 March 2019 | 19.30 – 21.00 uur | Theater Hall C, Radboud University

Being preoccupied by happiness as we are, we barely know how to confront pain and sadness anymore. Tomáš Halík calls on us not to run away from misery, but to see it, touch it and be touched by it. To do so, he uses the Bible story of doubting Thomas, who first wanted to touch Jesus’ wounds before he was willing to believe. Come and listen to Halík encourage us not to run away from the misery that surrounds us.

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Radboud Reflects Organizes in-depth lectures about philosophy, religion, ethics, society and culture. www.ru.nl/radboudreflects
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being preoccupied with happiness as we all are there barely is room for grief pain and sorrow anymore we hardly know how to deal with the sadness and the wounds of others but not only of others this also goes for ourselves we pretend that all as well and when we feel miserable we hardly know where to go tomash a leak says that it is about time that is high time for this to change in fact he says that the wounds of the world are the only place where God can be truly found and he illustrates his point by using the Bible story of doubting Thomas the man who refused to believe that Jesus had risen from the dead before he was able or allowed to touch his wounds he's going to tell you all about that in a minute and we are very happy that he is here so much holic professor of philosophy and sociology a charge University in Prague he's also a Catholic priest and he has written a lot of books public books in which he like no other knows how to apply the meaning of ancient Bible stories to our contemporary problems and issues as I said he will where's the where's the battery Oh where's the laptop hello anyway good he will give a lecture I think this might work sometime No okay my colleague is coming good he will give a lecture after which he will discuss the topic in further detail with theologian and America for Nevada also from about University also from my University and I think this promises to be very interesting because an America is not only an academic but she also worked as a pastoral worker in a nursing home so she has experienced some of the wounds of this world from very close and she can relate from her own experience how to deal with that how difficult it is to deal with that and how others deal with it before I give the floor to Professor holic I would like to thank the Zenon Centre for dialogue and inspiration in the hack The Hague yes thank you that's what I was looking for for organizing this event with us my name is Lisa Johnson I work as a program manager for Hobart reflects and I will also share the discussion and of course I will be ample time for your own questions thank you for coming you're very welcome and I wish you an inspiring evening professor Alec the floor is yours ladies and gentlemen good evening buona sera in style of Pope Francis there are still differences between Christians but today the main differences are not divisions between churches and denominations but across the boundaries of the churches there are still disparities between religious and non-religious people but the major differences go across and question the validity of a simple division into the taste and atheist rapid and radical changes in our world also affect the era of religion despite the self-fulfilling prophesy of secularism religion did not disappear from our world but has changed and is changing further the opposite of faith is not atheism but idolatry idolatry is a dangerous absurd ization of relative values our world needs cooperation between religious and non-religious people in the struggle against idolatry the powerful wave of populism and nationalism in our world is a kind of dangerous idolatry according to Pope Francis the church is to be a field hospital in today's world the Pope showed great courage to speak openly and publicly about the dark effects and tragic events in the church itself I mean for example the summit in were taken 10 days ago and he also mentioned some of the roots and evil causes of such as to expect that the three-day summit of Bishops brings the immediate solution would be complete naive after three day Congress of oncologist cancer cannot disappear from the world it is necessary to think globally part to act locally practical solutions need to be followed at a local level in a very very different situ conditions so there are very different conditions in Austria there are already 20 years dealing with the problem of abuse and something quite different is in Africa and some bishops are not able to say oh this also the problem of our countries however something essential has already happened the church is shaken she's shaken by the wounds caused it by some of her representatives this world needs wounded years this war needs if I can borrow the expression of my teacher Czech philosopher Yan pitaka the Solidarity of the shaken for a Catholic Church is a time of great opportunity opportunity for a new Reformation when the church goes in the way of humility kenosis self immolation self empting and Metanoia this crisis can increase and transform the church into a field hospital into a healer who through his wounds understands the wounds and diseases of our world our world needs doctors without borders' in a field hospital religious and non-religious people Christian humanists and secular humanists must work together but a powerful medicine of this field hospital is faith face not as a set of religious beliefs but as a life orientation as a basic trust the opposite of fear when my non believing friends asked me what faith is and what is good for I reply that faith gives one the strength to accept reality fully it is because our face is based on the conviction and experience that there is a meaning to reality that our life is not a succession of accidence nor in the world of Shakespeare's Macbeth a tale told by an idiot signifying nothing face is the confidence that in every life situation there is a meaning opportunity and hope so I don't have to despair and free from reality however complicated and harsh it may be nor do I have to dress it up in illusions that is why I believe that faith is the ally of realism and critical thinking and the enemy of superstition prejudice and illusion it is the courage of truth however understanding the meaning of many situations in our lives and in our world is not easy task that sense does not lie on surface it needs to be looked for to understand the meaning presupposes a contemplative approach to reality a culture of spiritual life I'm convinced that everyone was a living face and not death ideology occasionally experiences crisis passes through the valley of darkness or experiences the sila of God crisis of faith both tarasana in our life stories and in the history of church and culture are an important part of the path of faith of our communication with God I understand the religious crisis of our epoch as a collective dark night of the soul a challenge for purification and deepening of faith if God is hidden we can either ignore him or forget about him or we can accept this situation as an opportunity for adventurous and courageous seeking it is a blessed time for seeking and questioning modernity in Europe has been a major crisis in the traditional form of religion we cannot behave as modernity never happened we cannot simply enter the world of the past attempts at playing at the past have given rise to today's forms of traditionalism and fundamentalism as a Christian and a theologian I consider the secular actor of society and I live in a country considered to be one of the most secure eyes societies of the planet represents a great opportunity and challenge religion cannot be taken for granted it is a challenge to achieve a fresh and possibly deeper understand of it our era has seen in many areas the defeat and even death of Christianity or at the very least of its familiar historical forms we must learn to open the meaning of the present situation with the key of the Easter story this is not the final end however resurrection is not a return to the past the resurrection is not a animation or restitution of Eros y conditions it is the opening of a new dimension I'm really convinced that our face is Christian face insofar as it participates on the drama of Easter I'm deeply convinced that the face that does not undergo the darkness of Good Friday cannot attain the fullness of Easter morning there is no resurrection without cross I don't trust a face that never has been wanted by doubts and never has been crucified by the experience of evil and injustice in our world God's hiddenness has been expressed and the Jesus Christ cry on the cross my God why have you forsaken me this harrowing sentence has become more and more the cornerstone of my faith and basic of my theology God in Jesus descended among us into history into the world yes and into our pain our direct moments our death and our hell's help you has two words for why module which refers to the past course why something happened to me and llama which concerns the future purpose why did it happen what does it mean what was its purpose le le lama sabachthani the sentence can also be translated as my god for what purpose have you forsaken me what is the meaning of it it is a prayer in a form of an urgent question perhaps our performed this prayers could take the form of questions perhaps our perform these questions could become prayers perhaps in the history of theology we gave too many has the answers where there was time and space more for questions and contemplation perhaps the time has come for us to turn our answers back into questions again and well with the questions in the house of God silence and hiddenness maybe this experience of God's radical readiness and remoteness connects us with some people who regard themselves as non-believers even as atheists perhaps we have the same experience but we interpret it differently I say to a taste of certain type not that they are wrong but they do not have perhaps patients when they interpret too quickly God silence as a proof of death or non-existence of God but equally impatient our host rages enthusiasts who drowned out God's silence with the Archon hallelujah hallelujah or the registration lists who do not hear God silence because they go on repeating non-stop the phrases they have learned major faith is capable of waiting patiently is waiting is not idle passivity however by this expression of hope in what we cannot see and in particular an expression of trust and love because a major love as we know from the guide him of st. Paul is patient and worse all things in a gospel stories what does not respond immediately to Jesus's question in fact he replies beyond the gates of death in a place to which our experience and imagination cannot enter his response is when God is returned to the game to the lives of people to history but he returns transformed beyond recognition according to the Gospel accounts even his nearest and dearest find it hard to believe that it is he he forbids Mary Magdalene to touch him and detain him on his own world journey he invites Thomas to touch him but only his goods may be by resurrecting resurrecting Thomas's failed by letting him touch the wounds Jesus was telling him it is where you touch human suffering and maybe only there that you will realize that I am alive that it is me in other world all painful wounds and all human misery in the world are crisis wounds we can only believe in Christ and have a right to exclaim my god and My Lord my lord and my god if we touch his wounds which our world is still full otherwise I say Lord Lord simply in vain and to no effect so the resurrection is not a happy end by but an invitation and the challenge let us not be afraid to believe in love even where it is loser by the standards of our let us have courage to take our chances with the fully of the cross in the face of the wisdom of this world the gospel talk about the transform Jesus who comes in the form of an unknown stranger and for a long time keeps his disciples in uncertainity maybe it's exactly the time we live in if Christianity wants to return to the game after the death of God at the death of God of all metaphysical Haysom and after the collapse of dogmatic atheism as well then it must be transformed in the postmodern post religious and post secret times Christianity also must prove its resurrection by its wounds it is said of st. Martin the Satan devil himself appeared him in the guise of Christ the Saint was not deceived however there are newer ones he asked I do not believe in faith without wounds Christ is healing through healing us through his wounds as a Christian theologian I cannot see salvation in a mere return to some of the historical form of Christianity to recall the good old time religion but instead in a realization that Christianity is a religion of paradox when I'm weak then I'm strong st. Paul wrote if Christianity managed to find an opportunity in its present weakness it will prove capable of helping people not to let up in their search for an answer to the question about the meaning of life it would be wrapped hence about neglecting the failed to use for its own benefit the fact that during the modern era it was subject more than any other religion to the part of the flames of atheist criticism in the spirit of Paul the abdi pasta we ought not ask for the body of Christianity to be freed from the thorn of atheism instead that horn should constantly a vacant our piece from the sleepy tranquility of false certainties so that we rely more on the power of grace that demonstrates itself most in our weakness I'm really convinced the opposite of Christian face and the greatest enemy is 18 but idolatry we cannot regard it is imagined of God it is often rejection of Taisen human conduct notions of God some human notions of God are not only naive they are actually destructive having more in common with idolatry there is the faith of the biblical prophets and the teaching of Jesus of Nazareth the certain kind of atheism can help Christians rate their face of idolatry and it can be an ally of faith in the spider battle against idolatry in our tapes one example of idolatry is the substitution of monotheism and adoration of money for monotheism I also believe that they are some fervent atheists who are closer to God than conformist and spiritual lazy members of the Bible readers are well aware that God loves those who are s Louise him such as Jacob or Europe I regard a certain type of atheism the atheism of protesting hearts wounded by pain and in just in our world as a mystic participation in the Paschal drama and in the mystery of the cross I am profoundly convinced that this kind of atheism the atheism of pain and protest must be embraced by Christian faith not rejected again a face that is incapable of taking seriously and integrating the Good Friday experience can scarcely comprehend the mystery of Easter Island however in the dialogue with the atheism of pain we Christians must be very sensitive and have profound respect for others people need to preserve their own identity and self understanding we must have respect for that Adonis according to Emmanuel Levinas real love comprises respect for the other needs of others and thus not try are actually to convert others into the same they are so many sorts of faith as they are believers and they are as many kinds of non belief and atheism as they are non-believers in our time the number of believers resolves the hopes is diminishing and the photic atheism is also on the wane the argument between face and non belief has long since sees it to be an argument the between two types of people but has become a drama being played out within the hearts and minds of many people most of our contemporaries are similar theories at infinities a belief that this dialectic mail and the life of faith even greater dynamism and depth and leading faith to greater maturity I see faith and doubt as two sisters who need each other faith without critical questions can turn into proud and stupid fundamentalism and dangerous fanaticism on the other end then doubters are not capable of having doubts about their doubts it can lead to bitter cynicism or pragmatism such the hopes leave no scope for the hermeneutics of trust and hope in my book patient is God I expressed the view that the three divine virtues faith hope and love are three ways of conforming our patience in the face of God hiddenness and what's silence john paul ii spoke about the necessity of new evangelization however if new evangelization is ruli to be mean it must rate himself of nostalgia for yesterday and strike out this time on kinetic paths of love instead of the conversion of pagans a new evangelization should start by the conversion of christians a turning away from the outward to the inward from the letter to the spirit from the static to dynamic from being a Christian to becoming a Christian Saint Paul wanted to show that a mirror of Jesus's is the story the God who is unknown yet near proves himself to be a God of paradox his most atypical feature is that he turns weakness into strength death into life defeat into victory fully into wisdom and wisdom into fully that is why his mysterious unpredictable and becquer's cannot be corrupt for but instead opens the mystery of his heart precisely in that story about the man Jesus who humbled himself assumed the condition of a slave and was obedient right the moment of his execution which is why God raised him on this life orientation of kenosis is the courage to die to one's selfishness to forget oneself because of others and to step out of oneself the authenticity and maturity of our face lies in the courage to reject the temptation of cheap certainties to enter into the cloud of mystery and to endure the open questions and paradoxes of our time thank you [Applause] thank you so much professor holic for sharing your wisdom with us maybe to start with your book yes I think it starts with your perception your idea that we live in a time in which we are so focused on happiness that there is hardly any room left for misery for sorrow do you do you know how how did it get that way because it seems as if you're saying it wasn't always the case it has developed in this way there used to be more room for for sorrow for misery maybe at the beginning of modernity man the human being was so proud and so fascinating and fascinated with his own power supported by science and technology and there was this typical belief in progress and modern optimism in our country people say that optimist is a human being who has lack of information sometimes the illusion that the things are going better and better automatically but I think the hope is the friends to resend the situation when the things are worse and worse so I am NOT an optimist I'm not a pessimist I'm a man of op' so I think it is this modern illusions the progress of technology will bring the heaven on earth I think it was people are so fascinating with this right of rationality my addiction potaka wrote in his heretic essays about the 20th century wars of the 20th century and the 20th century as a war and he said some people got a chance during the during war and all the tragic events of the 20th century to look to look into and dark of nothingness out of this light of ration of the day and also the exercise the truth of the night and I think it was Nietzsche who discovered this truth of the night he said the world is deeper in delight and the world is deeper then the day was able to understand and also you nothing I'm not an optimist but I am hopeful what for you is the difference between optimism is the illusion but everything is going better and better yes and and hope is the friends to withstand also the situation when the things are going worse and worse so it gave me in a trance not to despair not to capitulate yes yes an America if you look at your work as a pastoral worker in a nursing home do you also see this trend that Professor Alec signalized that people are finding more and more difficult to deal with suffering with pain with trauma at loss maybe well being in a nursing home it's it is an area of sadness and loss and despair the nurse at the nursing home I worked in was mostly people suffering from dementia so we had to deal with all those people not knowing who they are anymore not recognizing their beloved ones so it was but and that's why your books appeal to me that exactly the nursing home was a place where you can find faith and hope and love not as a rational perspective so we need to encourage them or to to strengthen them but just being being together in taking care of these film people it it meant a lot to us to all those people working there but outside the nursing home I can imagine what Professor leek is saying to us that for instance I think well a dominant how do you say meaning in our culture nowadays is please prevent me from getting a nursing home once so a lot of people are very frightened to be there once yes so in our healthy culture I think it's a dominant strained not being wanting to be healthy and happy and not to feel vulnerable not yet and the people who come to visit the patients in the nursery do you notice that they find it difficult to deal with this declining health of their mothers grandmothers fathers yes it's really a tough to ask it to enter that home yes your own father or mother not being the one they would once and well the rules are getting put upside down your mother or your function took care of you and now you have to take care of them so for the relatives it's really a – task – to come there and to meet you and do you think that this is I mean it's logical if you explain it like that right it's of course it's logical for everyone to see someone who you've loved to have taken care of you to see in this situation but do you think it's also a cultural thing like colic has said that we find it more and more difficult because we are so focused on everything needs to be good everything needs to be a positive oh yeah I hesitate by saying but I think it's a dominant opinion in our culture that we want to well especially losing our intellectual capabilities is people are frightened of that perspective so they want to well – yeah so identified with well it's a horrible perspective for a lot of people yes they want to prevent that yes and you said professor holic that we should not capitulate to suffering even if we cannot end it if we cannot cure it but that sounds like a very difficult task if I hear you speaking about well I feel difficult to have the face and to have the patient you know I think on the other hand we are confronted today with many sorrow and tragic events but especially through through TV or through social media so we never have seen so many tragedies on the previous generation we are confronted every day away some but they are too much there are too many so that we are not capable to accept it with our emotion so we are looking at this film is going one by another put in our heart so it it leads us though certain cynicism and to look at it's a film and then I remember that some of my American friends told me then they'd have seen the September 11 the falling twins and it was like something from the films because they have seen the same scene in in the fictions in the Indian film in the horror films so the horror films yes we are in the horror films and sometimes our award is like a horror of fairness and so forth but this horror Oris giving us some sort of cynicism that we are looking it's a pie and I it's just just a play yes because I think your your book and also be read as a plea against indifference and do you think that the cause of this indifference is that we don't want to know what is happening in the world so we're sort of hiding or do you think what you are now referring to that we we see so much suffering that we just don't know how to deal with it and we think ok I'll give it up I think it's both especially this there are so many impressions so we fight into the entertainment industry and everything is becoming a part of his entertainment industry when we see the discussions of the politicians it became the part of the entertainment industry and and also some sort of religion when I'm looking at some televangelist in in in United States at the beginning I I was quite certain it's just just a caricature it just the just some it's an that time and it was real it was and the people say and say I really wanted to convert us through this way of the very humorous and and simple do you mean the way it is presented to us yes yes entertainment has become entertainment or the way we perceive it we just look at it as if it's entertainment of course we would say what's the chicken and what do you mean there's it's the one causes the other yes do you want to comment well I do have a question how can we escape this you say Lucas yes sir oh yeah this is circle bye-bye not feeling our own wounds or the wounds of our beloved ones or what we see how can we what can you do to to get it into our hearts and true to deal with it the culture of contemplation I met once one Jesuit in India and he taught me when I came here and I have seen so many sorrow and pain my first reaction was to two to three to two to go away it was the infantile action not to take it seriously then he said after a while I've gotten another another emotion there must be a revolution so it was something like the adolescent track so there was violence revolution we must upset all this on the situation and he said after at the time of a meditation I tried to accept the situation and step by step doing the little things and he said only the people people of the imaginary people like Gandhi and mother Teresa the people never able to change a little bit in the face of India without violence and it was because those people were the people of meditation so in the meditation to go deeper to go into the tabernacle of our conscience then we can have the power the strength to withstand this not to capitulate and not to react to the EO by an evil so I think this this is this tabernae gorgeous this depth level of our personality our our our conscience I think it is the it is the moment when we can transform these our emotions into very authentic life I'm an American professional like mentioned meditation in culture you started to laugh do you mean we are not living in a very meditative culture I appreciate your answer a lot and I was laughing because well it's it's in a way countercultural as as we live now so your advisers please content more pray more and then descending the tabernacle of your your inner circle and I was can I ask another question okay you were talking about contemplation and you said my you said it in your lecture the cornerstone of my theology my believe is my lord my lord why have you forsaken me so that's that's a more of a cry than of a preposition so and can you tell us more about that that's the I think I I thought it's a cry of despair but then I realize it's a question and it's a prayer and we should turn many of our questions into prayer and many our prayers into question so why why and then came the answer but not immediately the Jesus have to go through the gate of death so our hope is as the eschatological dimension so we cannot expect the heaven on earth we cannot expect the simply answers we must have just great patience and but we need this faith love and hope the kid and I think this is the call of of Christianity which we could also offer to some people outside the church because they get underthings yes because if I don't pray if I don't believe in God how can I deal with the wounds of the world how can I be meditative and do something I'm not logical and I hope there are some think an analogic in the life of so called non-believers because I think that it is division believers and non-believers does not work anymore I think and there are so many sort of of belief and pace and there are so many sort a sort of off of non belief that we cannot say they are just like the two football teams one in blue and green this this game is inside of us and we are all even if we are Christians we are the citizens of this world on this secular society and also the secular people have the heritage of the Christianity so the secular society is the Unleashed child of Christianity and has many this this heredity of heritage of Christianity also so I think there are many so-called non-believers they are very near to us and and there are some some people they arrest always God and as I said they got laughs the people who wrestler is a minor offense it's your piece for me so important the book of Bible though the man who is arresting this God who spotting is calling God for a for a for for process for for the just-just-just is for the trial for two and then God entered this story and he said the job was the only one who spoke rightly about me and there were some pious advocates of God there are the Friends of here and God said oh I will forgive you if my servant Europe will pray for you so it's it's always a surprise and I think I've got this god of surprise and yes also this scene of the Last Judgement and met you a gospel it's a great happening it's a surprise that Jesus will be with the mask and say I was there which is hungry people with your for now because let's take because there are so many examples and I think job is a very good example of someone wrestling not only with a god but also with with misery and with all the the this suffering that happens to him an America from your work again as a pastoral worker how do you do that how do you wrestle with the how do people in your know let's start with you how do you wrestle with the suffering you see of other people that you cannot end you cannot cure I try to stay with them with the families with patients in a nursing home just to stay not to say too much and not to answer not to to let their questions be questions because I have no answer as well and what makes a patient just being patient and silent even just wait and try to stay there and later we won't let the wounds be wounds yes yeah to be near me I love the sentence of Martin Heidegger that a technology overcame all distances but didn't create any nearness I think this culture proximity yes so we have a lot of friends on Facebook and we can chat with anyone anywhere in the world but there's no no proximity yes okay but you agree yes yeah yeah so maybe these nursing homes are one of the last places metaphorically speaking do you think it's a special place a nursing home yes that way yes yeah sure I think my whatever my faith was before I came working there is deepening a nursing home yeah yeah sure why oh how maybe by by seeing the wounds and vulnerability of these old men and women does something with with my own faith and existence yes and remember the at the end professor Lee at the end of your book you you talk about the language of not changing and touching no that's that's the language you speak in a nursing yes because people cannot speak for themselves anymore or the cannot be understood but just being with them yes yes and when we were speaking about tonight last week you also said that we live in a culture where we have enough money not to be confronted with a lot of suffering because we use well we older people go to nursing homes and sick people go to hospitals and in all kind of ways there is we don't face misery anymore would you would you agree on that so do you also think that our economic well-being has contributed to our indifference certainly certainly but you know it's the richness is always a risk power is also a risk so we we should always the richness and the power but we certain are sket ism so they are the relative values and we shouldn't to absolute eyes this absolute ization of the relative values is the idolatry so money and and richness could be an instrument to to do good things and and or it could be just for myself and for my and and it is the same as the power people can use the power to help it a powerless or J can do for their own narcissism and egoism and so on and what makes people choose for either pass a or path B it's a question of character and the quality of life yes because we also spoke about people's what do we need to choose the the fast a as those who say ok I'm a come do we need to be confronted with suffering before we can actually choose to say ok I'm going to work on that or this is more important for me then I don't know watching television and having a nice for evening with friends at the bar but that's not a good example because it's important to your question is what do we need to not be indifferent yes how do we get to that point you can you can't press people to to look to misery or suffering so it's a it's a question that hardly can be answered you can't press people to the question of sensitivity somebody's sensitive and he's looking at the film and he's touched by this and other people must be confronted very body and cells there are many many ways how we are answered and called and yes the confrontation with the Eva it's the opportunity to be more sensitive to be touched to be wounded by this mm-hmm yes maybe I have a part of announcer it's an all people experience suffering or sickness or somebody they love is going to die so maybe a small part of the solution is just talking about it and sharing these experiences with one another because especially in social media we present ourselves as being positive and all goes well but that's never the whole story so that mart might be part of solution just to lay down your mask and and Facebook no do you think no I don't think so well don't ask me because I think face to face contact is heartiness and sometimes the real art is also the medium of sharing the experience of others can you elaborate on that how do you mean so there is some some some great novel which which allowed us to share the experience of the other people mm-hmm mm-hmm yes or the film's yes and I must went now and when you mention this I think of the introduction of your book in which you describe how the story of doubting Thomas got a very different meaning for you usually it's being said as it's being told as okay Thomas was the last man who who wanted or who felt inclined to believe he first needed to be he wanted proof but you said no it can be read in a very different way to how did you get from here to there what happened so I visited the place in India it's according the reagent is the place of martyrdom of the Apostle Thomas and I I was celebrating the mass in the morning the cathedra and then I read this gospel about the Apostle Thomas touching revans and in the afternoon I visited the place of the martyrdom and there is the orphanage and I saw the suffering of the poor thick children and it was terrible and I I recall in mind the sentence of the story f ski of the even Karamazov so I will return got the ticket entrance ticket to the world in which the children suffer and then I realize oh yes they are the ones of Christ today and when I when I am I don't want to see this when I ignore this want of he wanted to run away when you saw those children yes it's a great it's a great temptation yes because it's it's really touching and and and then areas oh yes but when I when I fire from this and when I will ignore this I will ignore this wounds of Christ and I wouldn't have the right to say with the Thomas my heart and my god and it was the sentence which was quoted now by the carnal toddler he had the speech and opening speech for this summit in Vatican and he quoted this this my sentence no right to say my god and My Lord without touching and the wounds of Christ in today's world yes because otherwise it would just be a happy a happy ending because Thomas wanted the wounds to exist even if the well it had the story has come to a good end I think it is Easter story there are the two different interpretation of the ones of Christ the pilot sword wounds of the exhort the man and and and Exodus my mind my lord and my god and I think this paradox of of the humanity and divinity which is the the key paradox of Christianity it's seen is there are two two perspective how to see the wound of Christ and to see this this products this this this complementary of the human and the divine which is the key mystery of yes so to say no resurrection without cross could you summarize that as saying no happiness without pain there's both me both need to go together we can't so I think this this yes so there are some some supper Fischer happiness but also the deeper happiness and the deeper happiness we can discover just when we go through this dark night of of of the pain and I think it's also the crisis in our faith so if we have the real living face not an ideology so it's a way and on this way they are some dark nights there are some crisis sometimes something must die in us sometimes our old face are all form of our religious it is dying and I'm afraid that many times the church was not prepared to tell the people in such a moment don't return to your to the past sometimes the some parents and teachers of religion and the pastors are trying to push the people back in this naive religiosity but they we must go through this crisis when our religious illusions are dying and it is the it is the opportunity to discover the naked face I think the Mystics were the great teachers of jesus and john of cross and the reservoir via spoke about this dark night and i think the individual dark night but also the collective dark night some experience in the history in the history of the world in history of the church they are this dark night but they are also the purification yes an america if you hear professor alex interpretation his new reading of the story of doubting thomas do you then do you recognize this do you think hey this is a this is a way of reading the story had never read it before and i can use it for my own work for my own life yeah sure why i always tend to understand that story of well thomas was a kind of a second hand believer because he needed to to be sure and to to touch the roof and colleagues perspective of saying that you that faith without wounds is not or is not a major face or a deep faith it's an illusion even an illusion maybe even idolatry I can agree to that and I would remember that you also said the last sentences in that pericope is blessed be those who don't see but do believe and it's a it's a blessed saying like like the pool who are blessed and and the hungry people in a thirsty so that's it's really a new perspective on what is said there so yeah that opens new ways of reading that story for me okay okay before it's time to go to your own questions I think we've talked so much about suffering wounds pain my last question I think would be can we it's God not with us in happiness can we not find God there you remember just an hour before he spoke about the face and humor also the sign of the half a face that above humor because you know the great Saints and a great spiritual personalities have always the people of the great humor and you know I I was for one period member of this Pontifical Council for dialogue with non-believers and I there was the three-day meeting convert akin and I said behind an Indian priests need look at is God we are here already three days and he never smiled he is a dangerous person you know Vav recognized the disparity equality the real spider-man is somebody with relaxed who has the inner freedom who can smile and and this you know III think just adjust her cynical non-believers and fanatic believers are the people without any humor and the people they have the health spirituality and the real face our people of humor and I think there's a great similarity between the humor and and and and and a face it's something to face is something like the sense for humor you cannot just learn this it's it's a gift and vaneman Jewish friend taught me the parables of Jesus very lightly a very similar to the Jewish jokes and because you know it's awesome there must be some understanding and if you want to explain and joke you kill it and sometimes and many preachings we want to explain the person the rational babe she just explain the joke in it and we must to open it as a go on as a as a as a render as a paradox and to jump into into the paradox and and then had the Enlightenment yes jump and then the Enlightenment and Jesus's but when Jesus was asked how it is with the this the Barnhart secret mystery of God he didn't say so first he must've have the definition of God he just thought this study when one lady found and lost the money and invite invite neighbors and girls we must celebrate it I found the money and sent and so God is happy about the man who convert himself and oh yes so this is this is the love of God yes so we should tell the stories and to invite into the stories with the humor of is the inner freedom yes is there a lot of humor and laughing in nursing homes yeah sure yeah yeah yeah there is yeah it's so people always regarded as a sad place but that's not there's a lot of humor a lot of love love and yeah